Consider the following (IMO common) scenario:
One spouse is abusive and does not care about the children. Maybe it’s a malignant narcissist and their family is like property for them.
The other spouse cares about the children and may be the only one doing any real parenting. Also they suffer the loveless, abusive marriage. At some point they meet someone that cares for them and somehow that leads to cheating before they can escape the marriage.
In this scenario the children should stay with the cheater and the alimony should not be depending on who cheated. (Both IMO of course).
In that scenario, the spouse doing the parenting who isn’t a narcissist should divorce the narcissist. Or keep their pants on until the divorce happens.
‘somehow that leads to cheating’ No it does not ‘somehow’ lead to anything.
Either the person is in control of their actions, in which case they should have the self-control to postpone sex at least until divorce process begins, or they are not in control of their actions and are helpless to prevent themselves from sleeping with the other person, in which case they are not the paragon of virtue you paint them to be.
They may well be a better parent than the narcissist, which is why I don’t say custody should be automatic. I am only saying that infidelity should be strongly considered in custody decisions.
I have a ton of empathy for abuse victims.
Having something shitty done to you, doesn’t mean it’s okay for you to be shitty.
Cheating is not okay, even if your spouse is abusive. Leaving an abusive spouse is a valid reaction. Cheating is not.
And from a legal perspective, the second we open up the can of worms of ‘This person is shitty there for it’s okay to be shitty to them’ you create a slippery slope that could easily be used by shitty people against good people.
But you did. Not in so many words, but you said it.
I made the simple point that cheating is not okay, that there should be consequences for cheating. You brought up abuse victims. I said abuse victims should leave their abuser rather than cheating on them. And you said I have no sympathy for them.
The logical conclusion from your statement, is that you think abuse victims cheating on their abuser is okay. And that me saying they should leave their abuser rather than cheating on them is without empathy.
If I’m understanding the situation wrong, can you clarify your position a little? Are you or are you not trying to say that it is somehow okay for abuse victims to cheat on their abuser? And if you think that is okay, why?
I said here that being abused doesn’t make it okay to cheat and doesn’t justify cheating (even on your abuser). I said if you’re being abused you should leave your abuser rather than cheat on them.
You said I have no empathy for abuse victims. The obvious conclusion from that is that you believe it IS okay for an abuse victim to cheat, and I’m wrong to hold abuse victims to the same standard as other partners who aren’t abused.
If I’m wrong, if I’ve misinterpreted your words, please explain your position in more detail.
Your reasoning is apparently based on 2 premises: 1. Cheating is the absolute worst thing a human being can do. Abuse is just another Wednesday.
2. Everything is either black or white. There are no grey areas.
Like most people I tend to give abuse victims a lot of slack. Cheating is bad but in the case of an abuse victim I frankly don’t give a fuck. I’m gonna repeat that: Cheating is bad. In case of abuse however I don’t care.
I’m not sure if your singular focus on creating comes from being cheated on or from having an unusually high tolerance towards abusers.
If it’s the former I’m sorry that happened to you. However you need to stop defending abusers.
Consider the following (IMO common) scenario: One spouse is abusive and does not care about the children. Maybe it’s a malignant narcissist and their family is like property for them.
The other spouse cares about the children and may be the only one doing any real parenting. Also they suffer the loveless, abusive marriage. At some point they meet someone that cares for them and somehow that leads to cheating before they can escape the marriage.
In this scenario the children should stay with the cheater and the alimony should not be depending on who cheated. (Both IMO of course).
In that scenario, the spouse doing the parenting who isn’t a narcissist should divorce the narcissist. Or keep their pants on until the divorce happens.
‘somehow that leads to cheating’ No it does not ‘somehow’ lead to anything.
Either the person is in control of their actions, in which case they should have the self-control to postpone sex at least until divorce process begins, or they are not in control of their actions and are helpless to prevent themselves from sleeping with the other person, in which case they are not the paragon of virtue you paint them to be. They may well be a better parent than the narcissist, which is why I don’t say custody should be automatic. I am only saying that infidelity should be strongly considered in custody decisions.
I find your lack of empathy for abuse victims quite concerning TBH.
I have a ton of empathy for abuse victims.
Having something shitty done to you, doesn’t mean it’s okay for you to be shitty.
Cheating is not okay, even if your spouse is abusive. Leaving an abusive spouse is a valid reaction. Cheating is not.
And from a legal perspective, the second we open up the can of worms of ‘This person is shitty there for it’s okay to be shitty to them’ you create a slippery slope that could easily be used by shitty people against good people.
It’s pretty obvious that you don’t.
I did not say that.
I did not say that.
So, according to you malignant narcissists are good people? Okay
But you did. Not in so many words, but you said it.
I made the simple point that cheating is not okay, that there should be consequences for cheating. You brought up abuse victims. I said abuse victims should leave their abuser rather than cheating on them. And you said I have no sympathy for them.
The logical conclusion from your statement, is that you think abuse victims cheating on their abuser is okay. And that me saying they should leave their abuser rather than cheating on them is without empathy.
If I’m understanding the situation wrong, can you clarify your position a little? Are you or are you not trying to say that it is somehow okay for abuse victims to cheat on their abuser? And if you think that is okay, why?
Where?
In your first reply.
I said here that being abused doesn’t make it okay to cheat and doesn’t justify cheating (even on your abuser). I said if you’re being abused you should leave your abuser rather than cheat on them.
You said I have no empathy for abuse victims. The obvious conclusion from that is that you believe it IS okay for an abuse victim to cheat, and I’m wrong to hold abuse victims to the same standard as other partners who aren’t abused.
If I’m wrong, if I’ve misinterpreted your words, please explain your position in more detail.
Your reasoning is apparently based on 2 premises: 1. Cheating is the absolute worst thing a human being can do. Abuse is just another Wednesday. 2. Everything is either black or white. There are no grey areas.
Like most people I tend to give abuse victims a lot of slack. Cheating is bad but in the case of an abuse victim I frankly don’t give a fuck. I’m gonna repeat that: Cheating is bad. In case of abuse however I don’t care.
I’m not sure if your singular focus on creating comes from being cheated on or from having an unusually high tolerance towards abusers.
If it’s the former I’m sorry that happened to you. However you need to stop defending abusers.
If it’s the latter: get bent.
If you can’t keep it in your pants for the sake of your kids I don’t feel bad for you. You’re not gonna die from not fucking. Jesus christ lol