- cross-posted to:
- news@hexbear.net
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- cross-posted to:
- news@hexbear.net
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
An early burst of patriotic fervor saw draft centers swamped with volunteers, but that has waned with Vladimir Putin’s war in its third year.
The 28-year-old is one of thousands of young Ukrainian men keeping their heads down, dodging conscription and avoiding registering their details as required. Artem is cautious when he ventures out, and avoids places like metro stations where police mount document checks looking for draft-dodgers.
“Some of my friends are more paranoid — they never go out,” he says.
Artem has the air of a fugitive, with his baseball cap pulled down firmly and shielding his eyes even on an overcast day. Before entering the coffee house in downtown Kyiv to meet with POLITICO he gazes up and down the street, and once seated talks in a low voice so as not to be overheard.
When Russia invaded their country two years ago, young and old Ukrainians swamped recruitment centers to volunteer. Some were frustrated not to be drafted immediately, and complained loudly. The Ukrainian military couldn’t take everyone owing to a lack of resources and equipment, but managed to muster new units, expand established ones and improvise to halt Russian armor bearing down on Kyiv.
But that early burst of patriotic fervor has waned with the war now in its third year, the body bags filling, and men returning home injured and disfigured.
Pessimism about the future of the conflict is also taking hold, with ever more people questioning whether Ukraine is capable of defeating Moscow’s forces.
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I have nothing but respect for people risking their lifes to fend off Russia. It is probably more important than any individual life.
That being said, I have nothing but sympathy for any draft-dodger. I couldn’t imagine fighting in a war and I myself would hide as well. That may change if I’d have kids, but even still, I would never wish upon anyone to be forcefully drafted.
We all know how the Russians treat the areas and civilians that they capture though, so they are hoping someone else will protect them from that fate, so they don’t have to. If it ends up that there weren’t enough people to do it, they will end up hoping they’d helped defend it too, but at that point it will be too late.
Either way, they are trying to avoid being canon fodder for yet another greedy sociopath with illusions of grandeur, in a long line of them stretching back further than recorded history.
They’re damned if they do, and damned if they don’t.
Draft dodging is such a hateful term.
This is something that happens in every war, but it’s difficult in this particular one since there is a very slim chance other countries will come to the rescue. So it’s all up to the Ukrainians themselves to cope with this thread/war.
Yeah, Russia is shaping up for a summer push. Ukraine need all the people they can get at the moment, including western help.
I like to think it’s psyop, Russia thinking they’re short on troops only to push into a freshly thawn Ukraine would be disastrous.
Summer, not spring. By June they should be adequately thawed.
I’ve a sprinkler and a long garden hose, they’re Russian conscripts so they probably won’t know the difference.
It’s not really that. Ukraine has a shitty rotation policy which basically states “you are in till you die”. They don’t really release soldiers which you need to do to keep getting volunteers. Hearing “you are in for a year, then you can go home” is way prefferrable to “no you can’t go back till the war is over”.
It’s time for the world to step up and put boots on the ground against evil.
Every country in Europe “By all means, after you”
Everyone everywhere pretty much. This is war. I wouldn’t blame anyone at all for not wanting to fight.
France it seems is the only one courageous enough to make the first move. They will likely have boots on the ground within the next few months.
Every country in Europe after Russia spreads their war beyond Ukraine “Help”
Count me in. A conventional first-strike against Russian nuclear assets by the U.S. would be the most effective opening move as Russia is primed to begin using nukes against Europe and the U.S.
A first-strike (conventional) strategy would be the safest way to avoid the nuclear war Putin is so insistent upon. It would also likely result in an immediate end of Russian operations in Ukraine.
A plan that requires everything to go off without a hitch or the world will end is no plan at all.
Agreed, we shouldn’t build our plans out of assumption that Putin won’t use nukes offensively if appeased enough.
Not in favor of appeasing him. I’m not even convinced he could or would do much if western forces came in to help Ukraine inside of Ukrainian territory. I just think western strikes in Russia is a bridge too far in terms of risk.
The plan doesn’t require everything to go off without a hitch. Many things can go wrong and still result in success.
If you don’t suddenly and simultaneously destroy every single last nuclear weapon they have, then Russia would launch whatever nukes they had left, leading to incalculable horror for everyone on the planet. Trying to destroy Russia’s nukes is one of the very few things that would lead to them actually using them.
Your heart is in the right place, but that’s a very bad idea
How would a Russian nuclear response be prevented if anything were to go wrong? You only need lose or miss one of their nuclear subs for this plan to go south. I’m not comfortable betting our existence on the presumption that they wouldn’t use nuclear arms if attacked by NATO
For people who work in defense, a Western first-strike scenario (conventional) is widely understood to be the option that results in the fewest casualties and the greatest possibility that no nukes detonate at all.
Your scenarios of doom presume that one sub could destroy the west. You assume that we would not be able to defend against their attempted launch when we’ve spent decades investing in top secret defense systems for this exact scenario. You assume Putin’s delivery systems will function after decades of maintenance by notorious black market scalpers. You assume Russian soldiers would be willing to erase their families for Putin’s attack order.
A conventional first strike means very few, if any, of Russia’s delivery systems would launch. It is extremely unlikely that any of them (if any were to actually launch, given all of the roadblocks I’ve mentioned) would make it to a target. Additionally, every soldier and leader in a warhead firing position knows an attempted launch of any nukes would result in nuclear annihilation of Moscow, St. Petersburg and other cities. They also know that not launching means saving the lives of their families.
This game has been played out over and over again. If Putin launches before a western first-strike, we will suffer mass casualties. If we strike first (conventionally), it is extremely likely that we will suffer no casualties at all and it will also limit the casualties suffered by Russia.
is widely understood to be the option that results in the fewest casualties
Western economists thought that sanctioning Russia was the best option to instantly win the war. If you still think that, you’re on some heavy copium. Or you directly benefit from the money spent on directing the whatever-the-fuck-th sanctions package.
Your scenarios of doom presume that one sub could destroy the west. You assume that we would not be able to defend against their attempted launch when we’ve spent decades investing in top secret defense systems for this exact scenario.
And what if you were wrong? You’re not playing around with fucking rocks, a few warheads of the thousands is enough to wipe the life from this rock.
You assume Putin’s delivery systems will function after decades of maintenance by notorious black market scalpers. You assume Russian soldiers would be willing to erase their families for Putin’s attack order.
Some won’t function, some will. It’s not like it’s 6000 something nukes that are gonna get stuck in silos lmao. Also, soldiers are nothing if not good at making idiotic decisions when asked to do so.
A conventional first strike means very few, if any, of Russia’s delivery systems would launch. It is extremely unlikely that any of them (if any were to actually launch, given all of the roadblocks I’ve mentioned) would make it to a target.
Instead of half the world being instantly turned to glass, it’s only gonna be some random unfortunate places. How sweet. Can’t wait till a nuke drops on Ohio and the serious generals residing in bunkers shrug and tell everyone that it could’ve been worse.
Additionally, every soldier and leader in a warhead firing position knows an attempted launch of any nukes would result in nuclear annihilation of Moscow, St. Petersburg and other cities. They also know that not launching means saving the lives of their families.
Back to the point above, soldiers are fucking dumb. You don’t join the military because you’re the brightest person around, you join the military because you’re not needed anywhere else.
If we strike first (conventionally), it is extremely likely that we will suffer no casualties at all and it will also limit the casualties suffered by Russia.
“Extremely likely” means “we don’t really care if someone in the middle of nowhere gets glassed, we just need to prove our mighty military might.”
So many things their allies could be doing better before we even need to consider boots on the ground. A good start would be to give them the equipment those boots would have at their disposal if boots were put to ground. With adequate artillery, air defense, and air craft they’d be suffering far less casualties.
Unfortunately, the other countries were only interested in using Ukraine as a pawn to drain Russia of resources.
Removed by mod
@UkraineDeservesDeath @Burn_The_Right @ukraine
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/factcheck/
https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/the-facts-on-de-nazifying-ukraine/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-conversation/
https://theconversation.com/russian-fascism-the-six-principles-of-putins-nationalist-ideology-218182
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Ukrainian military couldn’t take everyone owing to a lack of resources and equipment, but managed to muster new units, expand established ones and improvise to halt Russian armor bearing down on Kyiv.
Since the Russian invasion two years ago around 9,000 draft-evasion proceedings have been opened, according to the Ukrainian interior ministry, but that’s just scratching the surface of the draft-dodging and the evasion of registration so enlistment notices can’t be issued.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has acknowledged that the issue is “sensitive.” Even in the weeks leading up to Russia’s February 2022 invasion, he resisted calls from opposition lawmakers in Kyiv to announce a general call-up.
It has stalled in the parliament, however, with lawmakers objecting to some punitive measures they regard as unconstitutional, such as restricting the property rights of draft-dodgers, impounding their cars and blocking their bank accounts.
“You have officers going on television saying if we don’t get more money and ammunition from the United States and Europe everyone at the front is going to get killed in a matter of weeks because the Russians produce many drones and have more shells,” Kniazhytskyi fumed.
Their relatives want the same thing: On Sunday, dozens of families of frontline soldiers crowded into Kyiv’s Maidan Square to demand their husbands, fathers and boyfriends be relieved from combat, arguing they’ve done their bit and now must be demobilized or given considerable rest and relaxation.
The original article contains 1,561 words, the summary contains 235 words. Saved 85%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Where is president Harrison Ford when we need him?
To be honest, Zelensky has been more movie-president than just about any movie president.
Check out Air Force One if you have not seen it
It’s not THAT good of a movie. It was a dumb loud summer action block-buster. July 25, 1997
