Sanctions have crippled Baikal’s production and packaging capabilities
Why it matters: Global sanctions against Russian companies have worked in at least one respect: Baikal Electronics can no longer supply enough chips to meet the country’s needs, and half of the chips it produces are defective. Russia is working to build up its domestic capabilities, but it is unclear whether it can catch up.
Baikal Electronics, one of Russia’s major processor developers, has been struggling in the wake of sanctions imposed by the US and UK governments following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. Until then, the company ordered the production of chips, including their packaging, from TSMC.
The Taiwan-based chipmaker promptly stopped shipping processors that year because of the sanctions. The sanctions also blocked the Russian company from licensing Arm technology. Baikal, which switched from the Baikal-T series MIPS instruction set architecture to Arm years ago, used the technology in its Baikal-M, -S, and -L series chips.
The supply restrictions forced the company to turn inward to produce packaged and tested silicon. Russian business news outlet Vedomosti recently revealed that about half of the processors packaged in Russia are defective. A source told the paper that the failures are due to equipment that is not configured correctly and not having enough properly trained technicians for the chip packaging.
In Putin’s Russia, even the chips defect.
Shots fired!
Unfortunately, they blew up in the tube, killing poor Ivan.
That time was on purpose, the ship’s officers were trying to defect. KGB operative planted as a cook got a medal
I feel like they could almost make that into a movie
The future’s looking bright for those Russian knock-off Steam Decks.
Apparently, exploding television sets were the leading cause of fires in Russian apartments in the 80s and 90s (per Adam Curtis’ TraumaZone). Except this time you’re literally holding it.
The handheld claymore that entertains you
Yet another sign of Russian economy booming!
Since Putin and the trolls here on Lemmy claim that the Russian economy is booming, this must mean that Russian chip manufacturing sucked even more before Russia started using torture, rape and mass murder to try to invade Ukraine.
Note the “try”… Because, damn do they suck at invading other countries too…
If you care about Ukraine, you should start taking this more seriously. Outside of your echo-chamber, Russia has proved resilient to sanctions and their ability to manifacture vital military goods in some crucial areas outpace the west, and by far outpace what is avaliable to Ukraine.
The much hoped for ukrainian counteroffensive yeilded nothing, and instead Russia is slowly gaining ground, allthewhile expanding its army with new, fresh units and learning to work with or around their shortcomings. Ukraine doesn’t have anything to put its hope to other than simple endurance. And that’s something that Russia has always had a lot of. The outlook is grim.
Ukraine needs support
There are two important sides to this and you are only focusing one of them.
One is of course supporting Ukraine, as you point out, but what is also extremely important is not to let Russia get away with their obvious bullshit propaganda.
Russia is working hard on getting rid of the sanctions. One of the main tools used are to try to get people in the West to believe to Russian economy is unaffected.
It is not.
(If it was, Putin wouldn’t fx deal with North Korea like they’ve been doing the last year.)
So if no one was calling out Putin and his useful idiots on fx Facebook or Lemmy, how long do you think the public in the West would support Ukraine?
Russia didn’t need NK for anything that the west could have substituted it for. They needed them for ammo. As it stands, with that respite, they are well ahead of Ukraine on that issue because their production is stronger.
You’re not calling out shit. You’re pandering to delusions that need to be disspelled. Because there are facts. And those facts are that Russia will win if Ukraine doesn’t get more support. Nobody is about to dismantle sanctions against Russia.
manifacture vital military goods in some crucial areas outpace the west
Artillery rounds. Russia has done a good job keeping up with demand. The news says they are almost out but just keep going.
I support Ukraine but I was shocked at Americans limited production capabilities for artillery rounds.
correct me if I’m wrong but I think we do a lot more close air support then artillery anymore so I’m guessing that’s why but I’m just guessing here
edit: spelling
That’s a part of it. The other part is that Ukraine wants our out of date stuff. The artillery rounds that we produce for ourselves aren’t the rounds we are sending to Ukraine. We haven’t manufactured the older generation of rounds for decades, so we are having to ramp up production on products that we discontinued.
ah that makes a lot of sense
That’s a part of it. The other part is that Ukraine wants our out of date stuff. The artillery rounds that we produce for ourselves aren’t the rounds we are sending to Ukraine. We haven’t manufactured the older generation of rounds for decades, so we are having to ramp up production on products that we discontinued.This was supposed to be a reply to the comment below yours.
Nothing we are sending for artillery or rockets or missiles is discontinued. That’s all current military systems. The artillery sent to what our troops use. Not sure why you think we are sending obsolete equipment.
Because the news articles I’ve seen over the last two years indicate that we are giving them last generation equipment and ammo. They haven’t gotten any of the new stuff, or at least it hasn’t been reported on
155mm ammo is the same ammo we’ve been shooting since at least WW2. They are getting older weapons but they fire the same ammo.
No we are not giving them our most advanced ammo in large quantities because it’s expensive and we need it.
The M1 tanks they are being given are still better than anything Russia has. Same with the Bradleys.
Even our troops don’t have the all the latest and greatest.
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Russia has proved resilient to sanctions and their ability to manifacture vital military goods in some crucial areas outpace the west
Thats cause companies didnt leave like they should have, they just changed their local shop names. And they will never be held accountable for it.
Its also cause countries, like Poland, are still trading with Russia.
I wonder at your definition of “new, fresh units” that russia is fielding
If you care about Ukraine, you should start taking this more seriously.
The American response to any international conflict is to call your opponents weak, soy, and gay, then spend the next 13 years grinding it out in a hellish knife fight that decimates the conflict zone and a dozen surrounding regions while complaining that they’re not fighting fairly.
The much hoped for ukrainian counteroffensive yeilded nothing
Nonsense. It killed a zillion Russian soldiers, by Russia’s own accounting, which probably means it killed ten zillion in fact. The only good Slav is a dead Slav, and we’re going to obliterate the entire Russian population at this rate. More bloody dismemberment via aerial bombardment is always something to get excited about, even if an equal number of Ukrainians are shoved into the meat grinder in the process.
Ukraine needs support
Hand them all bayonets and tell them to charge.
Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke
Shatter’d and sunder’d.
And, you know, some other stuff.
You’re aware that there are more Slavs than Russians tho, right? For example, Ukrainians are Slavs.
And we’re perfectly happy feeding them into the meat grinder of war by way of forced conscription. We also don’t seem to give too many shits about the livelihoods of people in Poland, Belarus, the Czechs/Slovaks, or the former Yugoslav states.
By “we” I assume you mean Americans? I’m a Latvian and from my perspective, you don’t have to give too much of a shit about the states you named. A lot of them are doing just fine. Especially Poland, Czechia and Slovenia.
What I personally care about, not just when it comes to Americans, is a bit more of a spine. I’m sure Putin would break faster if the pressure was harder. And I’m sure Europe could take the discomforts of war time economy. Instead there’s been pussyfooting.
That said, I’m just an average Joe, I might just be ignorant.
I’m a Latvian
I’m so sorry. That must be awful.
What I personally care about, not just when it comes to Americans, is a bit more of a spine.
I’m a little shocked to hear this from a Latvian, as you guys got fucked up pretty hard by Operations Redskin and Meteor. Feels like an Italian pining for the days of Eisenhower’s GLADIO or a Cambodian saying how much they missed the foreign policy of Richard Nixon.
I’m sure Putin would break faster if the pressure was harder.
I’m not sure what additional pressure would look like. Part of the problem with trying to amp up pressure on Putin is that you do that by applying pressure to his allies. And if they break towards Putin because you showed up with too many sticks and not enough carrots, they’re that much less likely to side with you again in the future.
Estonia, Sweden and Finland have been getting a ton of carrots relative to Poland, Hungary, and Turkey. The Saudis know they are too critical to seriously threaten. The Israelis know they’ve got the Americans by the balls, so they can do whatever the fuck they like. Meanwhile, the BRICS (-R) - who never really had a dog in the fight to begin with - are finding fewer and fewer reasons to work with increasingly stingy and racist American diplomats.
Which direction do you really think South Africa would go if given an ultimatum? What about India, a country far more reliant on Russian gas imports than American exports? We already pissed off Brazil by playing footsy with Bolsonaro for four interminable years.
And when the international community sees Biden as a dead man walking into the next election, there’s far less confidence that he’ll be there to fulfill any kind of threat or promise relative to Putin or Xi, who aren’t going anywhere.
Well, whole russia is boom-ing 😁!
Who the hell thinks the russian economy isn’t in freefall??
The amount of Russian friendly trolls and useful idiots on Lemmy are impressive… In a bad way.
Yeah, it ruins the experience for me. I hope some day I can feel comfortable recommending the fediverse to friends.
When one of the main instances is .ml, what you expect
Fewer here than in the old place. I haven’t checked Digg or Slashdot recently to see what they look like, but I’d bet they’ve been taken over like the old place has
Anyone paying attention to more than just forums.
Sane people.
Sanctions unfortunately didn’t work as well as we thought they would
“we”?
Russia was the third biggest exporter of oil in the world.
They were huge, and still are even though not as big as before, in oil, gas, coal, timber, fertwlizers and steel.
And you expected them to fold in a year or what?
Edit: coal and not coral…
By “we,” I mean American officials. Considering that US intelligence thought that Ukraine would fall within weeks, I’m sure they were expecting sanctions to do much more and much quicker.
I’m pretty sure everyone underestimated Ukraine’s ability to defend and overestimated Russia’s ability to attack/invade.
However, you still talk about what you think, not what you know others thought.
Did you ignore my first sentence, or do you think I’m a senior-ranking US official? I made it pretty obvious that I was referring to how the US federal government viewed Russia and Ukraine.
No, I didn’t miss it.
Somehow you take one fact, “US officials thought Ukraine was going to fall within…” and explain that that fact makes you sure about something unrelated.
First of all, as far as I remember we all drew the conclusion that Ukraine would fall within weeks. No one could imagine Ukraine was going to be able to shoot down planes transporting troops (a fact later challenged because of lack of proof) within the first days. Add to this how badly Russia performed. No one, no one, saw that coming from what we all thought was one of three military superpowers. We all had to change the world ranking on the fly when we saw, the now infamous, Russian Kyiv convoy unfold. You know, the one that essentially was fully exposed to Ukrainian attacks because logistical problems. No one predicted any of the noob shit Russia has been doing during the aggression.
So who do you mean saw all this coming before it happened in early 2022?
Yes, both things are about Ukraine but one is military intelligence and the other is a political strategy.
Your opinions on the matter are totally okay, it’s a good ground for a healthy debate, but opinions are not facts.
I don’t think it’s booming by any means, but it’s definitely not collapsing in a way that many assumed.
Perhaps Putin doesn’t give a fuck, perhaps it’s because they have enough reserves to keep things going for x months/years, who knows. I would love to see them lose their reserves and truly start to look at the position they’ve put themselves in. That’s when Putin’s leadership will be questioned at a higher level, and the idea of “one mother state” will be viewed as a disaster.
The masters never cares about the people. Putin still lives the same way he did before in his palace.
Russia will most likely not collapse (as in “total chaos”) as long as China, India, Brasil and other countries support them in their colonization efforts.
But it will bring them down on their knees and it will, if the West somehow is able to deliver ammunition etc, force Russia to end their war in Ukraine.
I’m not optimistic, especially not since the Americans are about to vote for the Russian asset in the upcoming election, but hope is the last thing that leaves you…
Americans aren’t about to vote for the Mango Mussolini. Red
coatshats are.
But one thing they’re good at is subverting political parties in other countries to do their bidding.
They are doing ao well they can afford to waste half their chips
I’d like to see some review/benchmark (don’t know which chips they’re making)
To be fair, the Russian economy is actually doing well. I’m pretty sure it had the most growth out of any G7 nation the past year.
These sanctions aren’t having the effect that a lot of you would want to believe. It’s actually having the opposite, forcing Russia to rely on domestic production once again instead of the world market.
The Russian economy is running hot, it’s unhealthy and unsustainable. Even that ignores that they overshot their military budget last year and it was actually 6% of GDP.
Also, there will be serious long-term effects due to lack of workers. Millions have fled, died, or been permanently injured, and Russia was already facing a difficult demographic crunch.
Here is a joke I heard in Moscow, in the early-‘90s:
Our Soviet computer sector was clearly the best. We built the largest chips in the world!
Only a 50% defect rate? By Russian standards that’s absolutely outstanding
Say what you will about Russia, but it had its fair share of amazing scientists.
I wonder if the next generation will rise from these restrictions or have they already been fed as fodder into the war machine?The brain drain that happened because of this war will take Russia decades to reverse. All the smart scientists got out fast.
The problem is so many talented and gifted young men fled the country as the war began. The UK intelligence agency estimates 1.3 million, those were families that had someone talented enough to work abroad and or had enough money to start over somewhere else. Not to mention the meat grinder…
The UDSSR had a quite good educational system. Communist countries usually had the lowest illiteracy rates
Yeah and they learned that agriculture (like in mother nature) was ruled by politics. Soo good education.
They had a lot of people and made any scientist/engineer who was successful into a celebrity.
Average RuSSian engineering
Are they even under 10nm?
FTA:
By 2030, the country’s goal is to manufacture chips using a 28nm process technology – something TSMC did in 2011.
That’s assuming they really do have no choice but to do all fabrication domestically.
16nm from what I can tell on their Baikal-S
16nm from what I can tell on their Baikal-S
I’m only seeing 16nm from the units produced by TSMC. Do you have something current that shows the domestically produced ones are also of that gate width?
Good call out, I totally failed to recognize that any chip made on a TSMC process isn’t going to be made in Russia. I’m trying to figure out what domestic fabs exist in Russia; from what I can tell Baikal is fabless. I have found an article that states Russia is aiming for a 28nm domestic process by 2027, so I guess their best chips at this point are likely in the 40+nm range. I’m going to keep reading though because I’m definitely curious about this.
Edit: this article paints an even worse picture for them. One of their fabs, Angstrom, had to disclose in bankruptcy proceedings 6 years ago that they hadn’t developed a process better than 250nm dispite licensing Intel 90nm process tech back in 2012.
From what I can tell, Mikron has been able to get a domestic 90nm process and possibly a 65nm process going in their domestic fabs. Sounds like they’re 20 years behind, yikes
Do they need to license intel tech? Can’t they just steal it? I assume no one will enforce that.
Well that licensing deal was 12 years ago. Things were very different before Russia invaded Crimea. Even if they had the ability to design smaller process chips, the machines needed to manufacture those processes are highly advanced and not manufactured in Russia.
All this reminds me of when China was finally able to mass-produce roller-ball pen tips…in 2017! They had been importing them the whole time. In 2012, one of the CCP big wigs threw a fit that in-house roller-ball tips were shit, so the CCP ran R&D for five years to finally introduce it in 2017
Well them Z80s are tricky.
50% of the time it works every time
Bad news from Russia are good news! great to hear that they keep failing :)
Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit
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50% yield isn’t unusual for a newer process tbh. For the longest time Intel’s yields on 10nm were reported to be <10% (Cannon Lake) and AMD reported yields of ~70% on 7nm.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13405/intel-10nm-cannon-lake-and-core-i3-8121u-deep-dive-review/2
Yield scales with node maturity, so if Russia is starting from scratch this is not at all unusual. 50% yield is more than enough to be profitable, it just limits the size of monolithic dies. Yield, in fact, is why AMD and others have shifted towards chiplet architectures and why Nvidia’s GPUs often sell without all cores enabled.
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