- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
An Australian pilot was forced to take evasive action after a Chinese military jet detonated flares close to a Navy helicopter that was operating in international waters near South Korea.
The Defence Department has described the actions of the J-10 Chinese Air Force plane as “unsafe and unprofessional” following the incident which took place in the Yellow Sea over the weekend.
On Saturday a MH-60R Seahawk which had launched from HMAS Hobart was intercepted by the People’s Liberation Army-Air Force (PLA-AF) as it was taking part in a UN mission to enforce sanctions against North Korea.
The UN panel to monitor sanctions on North Korea ended in April. Australia has no mandate to monitor North Korea at this time.
The Yellow Sea is also not a body of water for which “innocent passage” is typically needed. It’s a dead end body of water.
Moreover, if Australia was on UN business, there’s an expectation that they should report their business to Chinese authorities to avoid this exact type of incident.
As an aviator, you don’t endanger other aircraft as a matter of course. That’s the long and short of it. Does not matter what flag the aircraft flies under, or what language the pilot speaks, this is not something a competent and professional aircrew does.
Also, did this not happen in international waters near South Korea? Why can’t the Australian Navy joyride their helicopters there?
I’m actually glad you asked. The area where the Australian helicopter was intercepted was in China’s EEZ, near China’s territorial sea.
Normally, there are no restrictions for aircraft’s innocent passage through another country’s EEZ. This statement holds for the Yellow Sea, the Taiwan Strait, the South China Sea, etc.
However, this is true specifically for innocent passage and overflight. Australia claims they were in China’s EEZ to enforce UN sanctions on North Korea. The UN panel for monitoring sanctions on North Korea was disbanded last month, so Australia lacks the UN mandate to justify their presence. Moreover,
spyingmonitoring is very distinctly not innocent passage, and sailing an armed vehicle through is also distinctly not innocent passage. Moreover, the Yellow Sea has no real candidate places to pass to, so Australia is hardly just passing through.Of course, Australia could have also completed the entire mission within South Korea’s EEZ (a country that’s allied with Australia),
Or, put another way: if China parked their aircraft carriers 12 nautical miles from Taipei and started flying jets and helicopters within the EEZ but outside of the territorial sea, what do you think the response would be? If China launched a balloon that skirted around Taiwanese sovereign airspace but within Taiwan’s EEZ, what do you think the response would be? “Just let it slide”?
There are no restrictions at all according to the UN. It literally points back to the high seas section. Am I missing something? Can you point to the specific section in the UN charter that contradicts article 58?
The term “innocent passage” only appears in the territorial waters section, not the EEZ section.
Also, if the aircraft actually breached some airspace, escort them out and file a report, like the Baltics do with the Russians all the time. That’s the professional way to do it.
Also, is there another source where it says they were in China’s EEZ? This article says they were near SK, which would suppose a SK EEZ, but they don’t say exactly.
Falls under “freedom of overflight,” which necessitates that when entering another country’s EEZ you must
shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal state
shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal state
Per these stipulations, overflight is meant to be for peaceful purposes, not for e.g. spying, military coercion, etc. These are, more or less, the same conditions granted for innocent passage. Moreover, overflight often requires clearing with the government as per local laws and regulations.
There’s an open debate in international law as to whether surveillance is considered a peaceful purpose… But if someone dropped sonar buoys (“surveillance”) 12 miles out of Honolulu Harbor, you’d probably throw a fit.
Again, as I’ll repeat, flares are literally described by the FAA as a way to intercept aircraft. The US has used them against Russian aircraft, but in fact the US also does so to intercept civilian aircraft!
F-16 dropping flares on a PA-18 for TFR violation
Current statements are that the helicopter was in “breach of Chinese EEZ” (Peter Cronau, ABC) and “within close range of Chinese airspace” (Chinese Foreign Ministry). Notably, the Australians have ignored calls by the British to release videos or GPS data on the incident.
Source please, because the UN convention text says the opposite, the coastal state has all rights to fishing and the creation of oil rigs and artificial islands, but that’s it.
Otherwise:
Ergo, other than what’s expressly stipulated (fishing, artificial islands and oil rigs) it’s the same as the high seas (article 87 is the one that says anyone may do anything in the high seas), and:
Source.
What about, what about, what about. And no, the FAA does not say that an interceptor may dispense flares in the way of the intercepted aircraft close enough to create danger for either aircraft. It can use them to get the pilot’s attention as a signal, that’s all. Just as it is in the video you linked, the fighter dispensed a single flare in the view of the GA plane, at a safe distance. The flare was almost to the ground by the time the aircraft came into view. From your source:
And about
This is literally a tweet from someone working at ABC, says that “military activity in EEZs are illegal”, forgets to mentioned that this is literally only said by China and North Korea, and runs contrary to the UN agreements.
Sorry, but you really come across as arguing in bad faith, and trying to find flimsy justifications for the Chinese crew endangering flight safety and claiming rights they do not have, EEZ or not, by taking random snippets from places and pretending the rest isn’t there.
Motherfucker are you dumb, blind, or arguing in bad faith? Literally your own exact motherfucking source says this.
UNCLOS Article 58.2 and 58.3
Jesus Christ if you’re going to argue in bad faith at least make an effort.
On the one hand, even if the crew was in breach of some UN provision, that is to be solved in the UN, in a boardroom, not in the air. Again, dropping flares on an aircraft is illegal, unprofessional, dangerous and idiotic.
And again, if you read the whole Part (or even point 1), you’d know it specifically enumerates which rights the treaty is regulating does it grant the EEZ coastal state, namely economic exploitation (like fishing and oil drilling), the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations and structures, marine scientific research, the protection and preservation of the marine environment, and the normal rights and duties of any other state.
So the question, in what way do you think flying a helicopter (which is a right of any state in the EEZ) endanger any right of China specifically provided for in this treaty? Did they scare away fish?
EEZs don’t protect random made-up rights, only specific ones, and only if those don’t infringe on the rights of other states.
To clear it up, which of these do you disagree with?
All states have a right of free overflight and navigation as long as they do not infringe on China’s right on oil drilling, fishing and preservation of nature as provided by the treaty part 5 on EEZs.
China has a right to the exclusive exploitation of its EEZ with regard to living and non-living resources, so it is the sole power that can build oil rigs, fish, etc. as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of all other states for free navigation or overflight.
The AU helicopter was exercising its right of overflight, and did not infringe on China’s right to fishing or oil drilling or nature preservation.
Because if all that is true, UN provisions don’t justify obstructing the helicopter, and again, even if they did, this would be a diplomatic matter to be settled through normal channels, not by endangering lives through idiotic air showmanship.
Australia claims they were flying there for surveillance to enforce sanctions on North Korea. UNCLOS stipulates what internationally lawful uses of the sea are (including freedom of navigation, overflight), and it’s difficult to argue that foreign surveillance falls under that definition. Notably, surveillance does not fall under overflight, as overflight stipulates that no activities are conducted over the flyover that are not related to the flyover itself.
Your claim is that military surveillance is an internationally lawful use. That’s insane. Your interpretation would allow Chinese and Russian aircraft to surveil within 12 miles of the US mainland, drop maritime survey beacons outside of key harbours (to spot submarines and map out the harbour), and do acrobatics within view of major US cities.
Again, dropping warning flares in front of an aircraft to intercept is standard policy. It’s not even worthy of mention most of the time, and it’s described in FAA rules.
US F-22s intercept Russian fighter jets, fire warning flares
Again, Australia has still refused to release videos of the incident despite calls from the British to do so.