Image of the introductory coursework for people wanting to learn English.
It’s crazy how the eldritch amalgamation that is the English language can have zero rules, yet a dozen unwritten ones of what you can and can’t say. Good luck threading the needle if you aren’t up to date with the latest cultural evolution in America. Add on top that the kids keep inventing sentences worth of new acronyms.
I get what group of people the article is poking fun at, one of them is on proud display in the comment section. Though I still feel people should have a better understanding that as the Internet’s lingua franca you’ll encounter people from a wide range of backgrounds, and their grasp of the language and culture will vary.
I can certainly see it being a struggle for non native English speakers or English speakers from other cultures. Referring to women as females is one of those things thats accurate according to the language, but a lot of bigots have figured out that they can use common words as slurs and people are slower to catch on. Female is unfortunately one of those words; it evokes big “I see you as livestock” energy
Yeah. I think a fair few people misunderstand the intent of my comment. I agree that the connotation of “female” makes it a word one should be conscious about its usage.
I was strictly speaking of how non native speakers of English may struggle with keeping up with what’s socially correct English according to the wider Internet culture.
This, so much. In my language, even as little kids, they called us “males and females”, very rarely “boys and girls”.
Native speakers need to understand that not everyone knows all the connotations that come from every english word. Especially considering some of them are vastly different based on whether it’s used in USA, UK or Australia.
TL;DR, most people are reasonable and can tell the difference. We cool.
People where English is not their first language get a pass. There is usually a very telling inflection when someone says “females” and means it in the bad way. I would rather help people with their English and explain that it is best to not say it that way, than get upset over our language being unnecessarily complicated.
The context of how female is said is even more confusing. Best way I think is if you are referring to a group of people or a specific person as female(s), that is bad. If you are referring to something about our gender, a description, or something impersonal, then that is fine. “Female anatomy.”, “I hate being female.”, “There was a female guard at the station.”
While it is puts me on edge when I hear it (in that bad context), it isn’t like they called me a cunt or something really foul. It is usually just an immediate red flag that we may be dealing with an incel, but let’s see where this goes. Usually doesn’t take long to get a confirmation on how they really meant it.
I personally already know the connotation of “female/s” in English and avoid using it, so that’s not an issue for me.
It was more of a reminder (to some native speakers, yeah, I shouldn’t have generalized) not to assume the worst of people saying it, because they might not know. In the whole thread there was just this one comment reminding people that ESL people exist, and it was pretty downvoted so I wanted to add on that.
Plus, as you said, most of those Tate-types have a dozen other red flags attached to them, so imo there’s not really any point in attacking people just for misusing a word (especially online where you can’t rely on vocal inflection or accent). It just drives non-native speakers away from conversations.
(Also, ironically, as far as I know “cunt” is pretty much a greeting in Australia so even from that alone you can’t really assume anything. Context is always important, unless you know 100% you’re speaking with someone who grew up in the same country)
What issue? I’m not even directly talking about the usage of the word female. I’m talking about the lack of understanding a lot* of English speakers show when “others” use their language.
To use male/female as an example, my language doesn’t even have direct translation for male and female, we only have the equivalent to man/woman when speaking of humans. I could totally understand that someone who aren’t terminally online may be confused of when to use woman and when to use female, especially as female may seem more formal and thus be confused with being the polite option, just as an example.
I feel like the last paragraph made it pretty clear? Most people on the internet doesn’t have English as their native language, expecting all those people to understand the constantly shifting connotation of every word feels rather ignorant/ethnocentric.
English certainly feels like a lot more fast moving than Norwegian, can’t really speak for other languages. That wasn’t even really my point though
My point is that a lot of people seems to have rather strong feelings about something that can often simply be an honest mistake from someone who may not even be fluent in English, let alone understanding the finer nuances of the words
In some that’s true for everyone. Even with in the same language milliseconds can change if you’re precived as rude or not. Many people aren’t aware of this. We Just internalize a rythm and a bunch of rules. Then some one breaks them an they come off as rude or mean. Its just something baked into us.
Image of the introductory coursework for people wanting to learn English.
It’s crazy how the eldritch amalgamation that is the English language can have zero rules, yet a dozen unwritten ones of what you can and can’t say. Good luck threading the needle if you aren’t up to date with the latest cultural evolution in America. Add on top that the kids keep inventing sentences worth of new acronyms.
I get what group of people the article is poking fun at, one of them is on proud display in the comment section. Though I still feel people should have a better understanding that as the Internet’s lingua franca you’ll encounter people from a wide range of backgrounds, and their grasp of the language and culture will vary.
I can certainly see it being a struggle for non native English speakers or English speakers from other cultures. Referring to women as females is one of those things thats accurate according to the language, but a lot of bigots have figured out that they can use common words as slurs and people are slower to catch on. Female is unfortunately one of those words; it evokes big “I see you as livestock” energy
Yeah. I think a fair few people misunderstand the intent of my comment. I agree that the connotation of “female” makes it a word one should be conscious about its usage.
I was strictly speaking of how non native speakers of English may struggle with keeping up with what’s socially correct English according to the wider Internet culture.
This, so much. In my language, even as little kids, they called us “males and females”, very rarely “boys and girls”.
Native speakers need to understand that not everyone knows all the connotations that come from every english word. Especially considering some of them are vastly different based on whether it’s used in USA, UK or Australia.
TL;DR, most people are reasonable and can tell the difference. We cool.
People where English is not their first language get a pass. There is usually a very telling inflection when someone says “females” and means it in the bad way. I would rather help people with their English and explain that it is best to not say it that way, than get upset over our language being unnecessarily complicated.
The context of how female is said is even more confusing. Best way I think is if you are referring to a group of people or a specific person as female(s), that is bad. If you are referring to something about our gender, a description, or something impersonal, then that is fine. “Female anatomy.”, “I hate being female.”, “There was a female guard at the station.”
While it is puts me on edge when I hear it (in that bad context), it isn’t like they called me a cunt or something really foul. It is usually just an immediate red flag that we may be dealing with an incel, but let’s see where this goes. Usually doesn’t take long to get a confirmation on how they really meant it.
I personally already know the connotation of “female/s” in English and avoid using it, so that’s not an issue for me.
It was more of a reminder (to some native speakers, yeah, I shouldn’t have generalized) not to assume the worst of people saying it, because they might not know. In the whole thread there was just this one comment reminding people that ESL people exist, and it was pretty downvoted so I wanted to add on that.
Plus, as you said, most of those Tate-types have a dozen other red flags attached to them, so imo there’s not really any point in attacking people just for misusing a word (especially online where you can’t rely on vocal inflection or accent). It just drives non-native speakers away from conversations.
(Also, ironically, as far as I know “cunt” is pretty much a greeting in Australia so even from that alone you can’t really assume anything. Context is always important, unless you know 100% you’re speaking with someone who grew up in the same country)
Most language courses will have you learn the word woman before you learn female. Is this really an issue?
What issue? I’m not even directly talking about the usage of the word female. I’m talking about the lack of understanding a lot* of English speakers show when “others” use their language.
To use male/female as an example, my language doesn’t even have direct translation for male and female, we only have the equivalent to man/woman when speaking of humans. I could totally understand that someone who aren’t terminally online may be confused of when to use woman and when to use female, especially as female may seem more formal and thus be confused with being the polite option, just as an example.
*far from all of course
What are you talking about
I feel like the last paragraph made it pretty clear? Most people on the internet doesn’t have English as their native language, expecting all those people to understand the constantly shifting connotation of every word feels rather ignorant/ethnocentric.
But every language has a constant changing lexicon and a difference between offical and actually used.
English certainly feels like a lot more fast moving than Norwegian, can’t really speak for other languages. That wasn’t even really my point though
My point is that a lot of people seems to have rather strong feelings about something that can often simply be an honest mistake from someone who may not even be fluent in English, let alone understanding the finer nuances of the words
In some that’s true for everyone. Even with in the same language milliseconds can change if you’re precived as rude or not. Many people aren’t aware of this. We Just internalize a rythm and a bunch of rules. Then some one breaks them an they come off as rude or mean. Its just something baked into us.
He cray-cray