@Haui, it’s the same, a repo to download a browser IS a browser, at least it’s engine. Because of this it’s irrelevant if there is a preinstalled browser or a repo dedicated. Also eg the Steam client is a Chromium (bad optimized, slow as hell, in Kiosk mode)
Apart what will you do, if you want a browser which isn’t in this repo?
I think it’s easier if the OS include a Browser and everyone is free to use it or use it to download a browser to his like from its official homepage.
First of all, thanks but I‘m familiar with sysadmin stuff and a (web) browser is not the same as a repo.
I‘m talking about something like the appstore that you now have on most OSs. It needs to be open so no single corporation can control it. And it needs to be the same on all OSs for this browser issue (although one could argue it should be the same for everything).
And no, I‘m not talking about things that are just not available for windows/linux/macos but aside from that, the ui, sorting should be similar.
That way you make it impossible for MS to push edge, for linux to push firefox and for google to push chrome.
You visit the appstore and install your browser, then you can go online.
@Haui, ok but i still see the advantage there can be
How does a repository keep up to date with the 1000 or so existing browsers? Where is it downloaded from and what advantages does it offer compared to downloading it from its official website?
In Android there is the Play Store with dubious security and with many apps retouched and cutted off by Google, eg the app Blokada isn’t the same as Blokada from F-Store or the original .apk in the Website. In Windows I avoid the Store for same reasons
As I already answered to you in another comment: there needs to be a law that specifies how this store/list is made, what it contains and how it is displayed. It has been done thousands of times. Trust me, it’s gonna work.
@Haui, You cannot prevent an OS from modifying a Store according to its own interests, with which we arrive at the same thing that could only accept a list with links that point to the corresponding official pages of the browsers for download, an online activity that requires an engine for defect that is the same as that of the usual browser used, as in the example of the Steam client, in essence a Chromium in Kiosk mode.
I don’t have the faintest idea where you have your info from but you can make an OS do whatever you wan‘t. As a programmer, it’s dead easy to make something appear a certain way, display certain things in a certain order.
You write a law that says (I‘m not a lawyer, bear with me): every OS that has a GUI must display a „get browser“ shortcut on the desktop/main screen after installation. This shortcut needs to open a store (similar windows/linux/macos/iOS stores) which displays all browsers in this open list [source] only sortable by name, newest update, ratings. No other markings, highlights or recommendations are allowed.
That then needs to be sharpened a little bit since there might be ways around it in this form. Then you have your problem solved.
@Haui, not a problem in Linux, but I’m not sure about the trust in MS and Google. Which Lawyer will impose this law? The same old people who confuse a remote control with a mobile in the parties paid by these multinationals? Wait for it.
In theory it’s a nice idea, but this remains heavenly music in practice.
M$ has no qualms about offering FOSS in its store by setting a price, like some time ago with LibreOffice for €9.90.
Yes, you are correct. The political side will be a nightmare.
But this has historically always been the case. We need to agree on something and get more people go agree on it and so on. It’s actually doable, it’s just out of the scope for most people since they don’t have concise thoughts to begin with.
@Haui, we agree on this, but just like Google in its Play Store modifies good apps to your liking, you download it later with half of the original functions and full of ads.
Worse with MS, now planning an online OS by monthly subscription, without the possibility of jailbreak controlling the user and the PC completely. These are the people we have to deal with.
Check Microsoft.com with this tool and you will see https://themarkup.org/blacklight
I don’t disagree on your view of MS and google but I do on the politics.
Even huge corporations need to abide by the law (or pay fines) e.g. usb-c charging. We can do it, we just need to stay on topic. Discussing why google and ms (and others) wont do it is only going to hurt the idea because people love to hear „but we can’t change it anyway so you don’t have to do anything“. Instead we forget what naysayers there definitely will be and just push for it.
@Haui, Google, MS must certainly comply with the legislation and it is seen that in the EU (GDPR) the corresponding PPs do not contain these atrocities like those for a US user. But this is not the central point, apart from the fact that they sometimes prefer to pay the fines because it is more profitable for them, it is the inherent ethics of their policy that lessens trust in their services, because it is also clear that they will always try to circumvent the legislation for their purposes.
@Haui, it’s the same, a repo to download a browser IS a browser, at least it’s engine. Because of this it’s irrelevant if there is a preinstalled browser or a repo dedicated. Also eg the Steam client is a Chromium (bad optimized, slow as hell, in Kiosk mode)
Apart what will you do, if you want a browser which isn’t in this repo?
I think it’s easier if the OS include a Browser and everyone is free to use it or use it to download a browser to his like from its official homepage.
First of all, thanks but I‘m familiar with sysadmin stuff and a (web) browser is not the same as a repo.
I‘m talking about something like the appstore that you now have on most OSs. It needs to be open so no single corporation can control it. And it needs to be the same on all OSs for this browser issue (although one could argue it should be the same for everything).
And no, I‘m not talking about things that are just not available for windows/linux/macos but aside from that, the ui, sorting should be similar.
That way you make it impossible for MS to push edge, for linux to push firefox and for google to push chrome.
You visit the appstore and install your browser, then you can go online.
@Haui, ok but i still see the advantage there can be
How does a repository keep up to date with the 1000 or so existing browsers? Where is it downloaded from and what advantages does it offer compared to downloading it from its official website?
In Android there is the Play Store with dubious security and with many apps retouched and cutted off by Google, eg the app Blokada isn’t the same as Blokada from F-Store or the original .apk in the Website. In Windows I avoid the Store for same reasons
As I already answered to you in another comment: there needs to be a law that specifies how this store/list is made, what it contains and how it is displayed. It has been done thousands of times. Trust me, it’s gonna work.
@Haui, You cannot prevent an OS from modifying a Store according to its own interests, with which we arrive at the same thing that could only accept a list with links that point to the corresponding official pages of the browsers for download, an online activity that requires an engine for defect that is the same as that of the usual browser used, as in the example of the Steam client, in essence a Chromium in Kiosk mode.
I don’t have the faintest idea where you have your info from but you can make an OS do whatever you wan‘t. As a programmer, it’s dead easy to make something appear a certain way, display certain things in a certain order.
You write a law that says (I‘m not a lawyer, bear with me): every OS that has a GUI must display a „get browser“ shortcut on the desktop/main screen after installation. This shortcut needs to open a store (similar windows/linux/macos/iOS stores) which displays all browsers in this open list [source] only sortable by name, newest update, ratings. No other markings, highlights or recommendations are allowed.
That then needs to be sharpened a little bit since there might be ways around it in this form. Then you have your problem solved.
Have a nice day.
@Haui, not a problem in Linux, but I’m not sure about the trust in MS and Google. Which Lawyer will impose this law? The same old people who confuse a remote control with a mobile in the parties paid by these multinationals? Wait for it.
In theory it’s a nice idea, but this remains heavenly music in practice.
M$ has no qualms about offering FOSS in its store by setting a price, like some time ago with LibreOffice for €9.90.
Yes, you are correct. The political side will be a nightmare.
But this has historically always been the case. We need to agree on something and get more people go agree on it and so on. It’s actually doable, it’s just out of the scope for most people since they don’t have concise thoughts to begin with.
@Haui, we agree on this, but just like Google in its Play Store modifies good apps to your liking, you download it later with half of the original functions and full of ads.
Worse with MS, now planning an online OS by monthly subscription, without the possibility of jailbreak controlling the user and the PC completely. These are the people we have to deal with.
Check Microsoft.com with this tool and you will see
https://themarkup.org/blacklight
I don’t disagree on your view of MS and google but I do on the politics.
Even huge corporations need to abide by the law (or pay fines) e.g. usb-c charging. We can do it, we just need to stay on topic. Discussing why google and ms (and others) wont do it is only going to hurt the idea because people love to hear „but we can’t change it anyway so you don’t have to do anything“. Instead we forget what naysayers there definitely will be and just push for it.
We need to get this out there.
@Haui, Google, MS must certainly comply with the legislation and it is seen that in the EU (GDPR) the corresponding PPs do not contain these atrocities like those for a US user. But this is not the central point, apart from the fact that they sometimes prefer to pay the fines because it is more profitable for them, it is the inherent ethics of their policy that lessens trust in their services, because it is also clear that they will always try to circumvent the legislation for their purposes.