There is absolutely nothing complex about this matter. A woman had a physical advantage over another woman, and is immediately suspected of not being a ‘real woman’. This shit is as old as time itself, and it would never happen to a man.
Suspected of not being a real woman after having previously tested for too high a testosterone level.
To be fair, testosterone does occur naturally in both men and women (as does estrogen for that matter), and it’s not unusual for people to over-produce one or another for a variety of medical reasons.
But the accusation is not based purely on her performance.
She has previously tested for high testosterone levels in a test that was, by the words of an IOC official, "cobbled together, as I understand, overnight [during the world championships] to change the results.” The nature of the tests was unspecified, and the governing body has been banned from the Olympics over governance and corruption issues. It has been insinuated that the unspecified test at the world championships was only administered by the Russian-led IBA after Khelif defeated a Russian athlete.
Khelif was born a woman, has identified as a woman all her life, and was even banned from boxing as a child by her father because he deemed it to be ‘not for girls’. She has competed for years, has wins and losses in her belt like any other athlete.
And yes, as you say, high testosterone levels in women can occur due to a variety of reasons, including medical ones. So we should not immediately suspect foul play when a high performing female athlete has above average testosterone.
Since I’m on my phone I am not going to deeplink each claim - receipts are in the following articles:
And one more thing: a man would never be subject to this kind of demeaning scrutiny even if he seriously outperforms his peers. Michael Phelps has unusual body features that give him an almost unfair edge over competitors. He has won 20 gold medals in his career. His success is attributed to skill and hard work. Katy Ledecky has matched his medal tally, and was subjected to the same suspicions and demeaning scrutiny as Khelif is now. Hint: there is no evidence that she is anything but a woman. The gender scrutiny of high performing female athletes goes back to the 1930s, because for some reason high performing women with a perceived unusual or ‘non-feminine’ physique are immediately suspect.
It’s a little complicated. The Italian boxer who faced Imane in the last match said she “had never been punched that hard before” and had to resign in the first minute.
There’s no proof of an Y chromosome, the test Imane failed was just for testosterone (which might be natural). I’m not a doctor, but couldn’t that just be from doping or something? She’s from Algeria, which has only won like 17 Olympic medals total, which could encourage cheating. It would explain her punches being stronger.
Oh fuck off. For one, it’s not even clear whether higher testosterone levels really give an athlete that much of an edge - many high level male athletes have comparatively low testosterone levels. Secondly, the forms of doping that involve testosterone are not manifesting themselves purely in higher testosterone levels - there are other tests for that. If there was any suspicion that this athlete was doping, they’d run the gamut on her - note how many athletes were already suspended this year, and they’re not from comparatively poor countries like Algeria.
If a male boxer beats an opponent to a pulp, then we collectively shrug and move on. Oh well, he was just better. Poor matchmaking. But when it involves women, suddenly there must be something wrong with the athlete who, applying Occam’s Razor, simply was stronger.
They’re being “mean” because you’re jumping to assumptions that a brown woman is cheating because she was very good at a sport, and all your comments are laced with transphobic undertones. There is zero evidence to suggest Imane Khelif cheated, but you keep acting like there is.
How many people have had to surrender within a minute (not a knockout or pin)?
A lot, actually. It’s a violent sport, it happens all the time. Ronda Rousey famously had a match called in under a minute by a ref because she was so seriously outmatched, it doesn’t mean her opponent was cheating or trans.
You’re implicitly accusing an athlete you don’t even know of cheating and doping, insinuating that it’s because she is from a country that hasn’t won many gold medals - but I’m being mean for telling you to fuck off?
Would you like me to repeat my words, or would that be too ‘mean’?
Didn’t at least one person say the same thing about Mike Tyson?
Being better than everyone else might mean cheating, but it also might mean they are just better. No way for us plebs on the ground to know. It sounds like the IBC has not fostered enough trust to be taken at their word.
That being the case, it seems reasonable to take Imane’s word for it until the matter can be settled by a trustworthy body.
There is absolutely nothing complex about this matter. A woman had a physical advantage over another woman, and is immediately suspected of not being a ‘real woman’. This shit is as old as time itself, and it would never happen to a man.
Suspected of not being a real woman after having previously tested for too high a testosterone level.
To be fair, testosterone does occur naturally in both men and women (as does estrogen for that matter), and it’s not unusual for people to over-produce one or another for a variety of medical reasons.
But the accusation is not based purely on her performance.
She has previously tested for high testosterone levels in a test that was, by the words of an IOC official, "cobbled together, as I understand, overnight [during the world championships] to change the results.” The nature of the tests was unspecified, and the governing body has been banned from the Olympics over governance and corruption issues. It has been insinuated that the unspecified test at the world championships was only administered by the Russian-led IBA after Khelif defeated a Russian athlete.
Khelif was born a woman, has identified as a woman all her life, and was even banned from boxing as a child by her father because he deemed it to be ‘not for girls’. She has competed for years, has wins and losses in her belt like any other athlete.
And yes, as you say, high testosterone levels in women can occur due to a variety of reasons, including medical ones. So we should not immediately suspect foul play when a high performing female athlete has above average testosterone.
Since I’m on my phone I am not going to deeplink each claim - receipts are in the following articles:
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympics-boxer-imane-khelif-anti-trans-rcna164721
https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-boxing-gender-4b6eb881cce9c34484d30c68ad979127
And one more thing: a man would never be subject to this kind of demeaning scrutiny even if he seriously outperforms his peers. Michael Phelps has unusual body features that give him an almost unfair edge over competitors. He has won 20 gold medals in his career. His success is attributed to skill and hard work. Katy Ledecky has matched his medal tally, and was subjected to the same suspicions and demeaning scrutiny as Khelif is now. Hint: there is no evidence that she is anything but a woman. The gender scrutiny of high performing female athletes goes back to the 1930s, because for some reason high performing women with a perceived unusual or ‘non-feminine’ physique are immediately suspect.
It’s a little complicated. The Italian boxer who faced Imane in the last match said she “had never been punched that hard before” and had to resign in the first minute.
There’s no proof of an Y chromosome, the test Imane failed was just for testosterone (which might be natural). I’m not a doctor, but couldn’t that just be from doping or something? She’s from Algeria, which has only won like 17 Olympic medals total, which could encourage cheating. It would explain her punches being stronger.
Oh fuck off. For one, it’s not even clear whether higher testosterone levels really give an athlete that much of an edge - many high level male athletes have comparatively low testosterone levels. Secondly, the forms of doping that involve testosterone are not manifesting themselves purely in higher testosterone levels - there are other tests for that. If there was any suspicion that this athlete was doping, they’d run the gamut on her - note how many athletes were already suspended this year, and they’re not from comparatively poor countries like Algeria.
If a male boxer beats an opponent to a pulp, then we collectively shrug and move on. Oh well, he was just better. Poor matchmaking. But when it involves women, suddenly there must be something wrong with the athlete who, applying Occam’s Razor, simply was stronger.
I don’t know why you’re being mean. I’m not misgendering anyone. How many people have had to surrender within a minute (not a knockout or pin)?
They’re being “mean” because you’re jumping to assumptions that a brown woman is cheating because she was very good at a sport, and all your comments are laced with transphobic undertones. There is zero evidence to suggest Imane Khelif cheated, but you keep acting like there is.
A lot, actually. It’s a violent sport, it happens all the time. Ronda Rousey famously had a match called in under a minute by a ref because she was so seriously outmatched, it doesn’t mean her opponent was cheating or trans.
You’re implicitly accusing an athlete you don’t even know of cheating and doping, insinuating that it’s because she is from a country that hasn’t won many gold medals - but I’m being mean for telling you to fuck off?
Would you like me to repeat my words, or would that be too ‘mean’?
Didn’t at least one person say the same thing about Mike Tyson?
Being better than everyone else might mean cheating, but it also might mean they are just better. No way for us plebs on the ground to know. It sounds like the IBC has not fostered enough trust to be taken at their word.
That being the case, it seems reasonable to take Imane’s word for it until the matter can be settled by a trustworthy body.