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Okay im an ML and not denouncing china but this is definitely an L
Class struggle is an integral part to marxism leninism
similar for me, im new to this and trying to get some help to reason it out. Marxism is hard lmao.
I agree! You can see my personal growth even looking at the oldest comments in my 8 month old Lemmy.ml account, and I was far worse back on Reddit. Learning takes time (and reading theory, and matching it to practice).
although people’s welfare is a central and extremely important part of socialism, it is not what makes something socialist. Otherwise Finland could be called socialist for having state ownership and social welfare.
Important bit here, Finland is a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie, and practices Imperialism to fund its safety nets. The PRC has a Dictatorship of the Proletariat, and funds its safety nets and infrastructure from itself. Additionally, we see increased privitization and sliding worker protections in Finland, and rising public infrastructure and worker protections in the PRC. Their power dynamics, trajectories, and sources are different.
Not just deng and stalin, but all heads of marxism leninism reject this restoration of capitalism especially if private property was already eliminated to a large extent. Lenin’s NEP could be referenced but that was very very short and in a different situation, and was fortunately reversed by Stalin after it had outlived its short usefullness.
I think you would benefit from reading the entire thread. Development of Material Conditions determines Mode of Production, China cannot skip to full socialization even if everyone knew how to do it, hence Deng’s original reforms.
Of course I also recognize that I could very well be wrong and of course retract my positions or adjust them if incorrect. My main concern with all of this is the existence of private property, i do not care for state ownership critiques as ‘state capitalism’ is a dogmatic critique in my eyes.
I again want to stress the importance of the entire thread. Many comrades had the same or similar concerns, and ultimately it loops back to Historical Materialism and the Marxist Theory of Development, rather than the Maoist.
Important bit here, Finland is a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie, and practices Imperialism to fund its safety nets. The PRC has a Dictatorship of the Proletariat, and funds its safety nets and infrastructure from itself. Additionally, we see increased privitization and sliding worker protections in Finland, and rising public infrastructure and worker protections in the PRC. Their power dynamics, trajectories, and sources are different.
Although I agree these things are true, a communist party in charge shouldn’t be the end all be all behind being communist. tito’s ‘market socialist’ system directly led to its own downfall through the empowerment of petite and national bourgeoisie backing nationalist splitters. Though Tito’s Yugoslavia was ruled by a communist party it still facilitated the growth of private property, speculation, and the capitalist class, even if it was alongside the proletariat. Like I highlighted how it was different for lenin’s NEP done under lenin and stalin, which destroyed its revisionist elements, but under Yugoslavia the communist party was building up capitalism in the name of socialism.
of course China does not practice imperialism, but there is a medium between neoimperialism and the USSR’s Mutual aid that china is between and sometimes leans too closely to extractive relations. again i dont think that china or the soviet union were or are imperialist, but the trade of china is sometimes cooperation between unrestrained capitalists in china developing private markets in the rest of the developed world. Not grouping them in with the actual imperialists, not in the slightest, and it is important to highlight that many projects (especially that of the Belt and Road) are done in co-operation with CPC SOCs and the governments of that nation, and are far more beneficial to the underdeveloped country (like that of soviet trade and foreign investment). China gives a good deal, far better than the west, but it could be improved and they are capable of making that improvement.
Again not everyone has to be the soviet union or the bolsheviks, but a consensus must be reached on what is necessary for material conditions and when that goes too far and becomes truly revisionist. Revisionism led directly to the fall of the soviet union and the temporary collapse of socialism across the world, it must be treated as the grave threat it is.
I think you would benefit from reading the entire thread. Development of Material Conditions determines Mode of Production, China cannot skip to full socialization even if everyone knew how to do it, hence Deng’s original reforms.
I again want to stress the importance of the entire thread. Many comrades had the same or similar concerns, and ultimately it loops back to Historical Materialism and the Marxist Theory of Development, rather than the Maoist.
sorry did you link the thread?
I referenced in an earlier comment that under Deng’s own conditions listed from those quotes the reform has removedd into a capitalist restoration. Development is a primary concern but that does not mean throw away communism to do so, as it is rather successful at doing so in many instances. I do not think Deng’s original reform was inherently revisionist either, especially with the goal of furthering development and getting the capitalist powers to warm relations, but after deng there was an immediate un-tethering of capitalism. Capitalist relations were fully re-introduced (of course majority remained in state control but a lot became privately owned). Healthcare privatization was completely unnecessary at the time and still is, and is exploitative, although the party has recently helped ensure 90 percent coverage as of recently it is still under private insurance. Capitalists dictate far too much in the economy where they shouldn’t, as seen with the re-introduction of the landlord class in the 90s only causing massive issues in the modern day that the party must amend.
China can of course reverse these revisionist tendencies and is capable of doing so, but their ‘pragmatism’ has itself become dogmatic. I have a decent amount of hope that the party can be reigned in and thus the capitalists, but only time will tell. Until then its a good trading partner, a peaceful country, and a vital part of resisting US capitalism. Very important, but the efforts can be improved.
Again, I do not claim maoism or its many critiques, i am a marxist leninist whose read mostly everyone but mao lmao.
also definitely supporting them retaking taiwan the US can fuck the hell off.
any critiques are most welcomed, as I know I have much to learn.
I’ll fully admit that I am not familiar enough to challenge anything you’ve said here correctly, no investigation, no right to speak. I don’t want you to think I didn’t read your reply, but I do not intend on trying to answer it either, as I do not know enough to give a good answer for you or myself.
I agree! You can see my personal growth even looking at the oldest comments in my 8 month old Lemmy.ml account, and I was far worse back on Reddit. Learning takes time (and reading theory, and matching it to practice).
Important bit here, Finland is a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie, and practices Imperialism to fund its safety nets. The PRC has a Dictatorship of the Proletariat, and funds its safety nets and infrastructure from itself. Additionally, we see increased privitization and sliding worker protections in Finland, and rising public infrastructure and worker protections in the PRC. Their power dynamics, trajectories, and sources are different.
I think you would benefit from reading the entire thread. Development of Material Conditions determines Mode of Production, China cannot skip to full socialization even if everyone knew how to do it, hence Deng’s original reforms.
I again want to stress the importance of the entire thread. Many comrades had the same or similar concerns, and ultimately it loops back to Historical Materialism and the Marxist Theory of Development, rather than the Maoist.
Although I agree these things are true, a communist party in charge shouldn’t be the end all be all behind being communist. tito’s ‘market socialist’ system directly led to its own downfall through the empowerment of petite and national bourgeoisie backing nationalist splitters. Though Tito’s Yugoslavia was ruled by a communist party it still facilitated the growth of private property, speculation, and the capitalist class, even if it was alongside the proletariat. Like I highlighted how it was different for lenin’s NEP done under lenin and stalin, which destroyed its revisionist elements, but under Yugoslavia the communist party was building up capitalism in the name of socialism.
of course China does not practice imperialism, but there is a medium between neoimperialism and the USSR’s Mutual aid that china is between and sometimes leans too closely to extractive relations. again i dont think that china or the soviet union were or are imperialist, but the trade of china is sometimes cooperation between unrestrained capitalists in china developing private markets in the rest of the developed world. Not grouping them in with the actual imperialists, not in the slightest, and it is important to highlight that many projects (especially that of the Belt and Road) are done in co-operation with CPC SOCs and the governments of that nation, and are far more beneficial to the underdeveloped country (like that of soviet trade and foreign investment). China gives a good deal, far better than the west, but it could be improved and they are capable of making that improvement.
Again not everyone has to be the soviet union or the bolsheviks, but a consensus must be reached on what is necessary for material conditions and when that goes too far and becomes truly revisionist. Revisionism led directly to the fall of the soviet union and the temporary collapse of socialism across the world, it must be treated as the grave threat it is.
sorry did you link the thread?
I referenced in an earlier comment that under Deng’s own conditions listed from those quotes the reform has removedd into a capitalist restoration. Development is a primary concern but that does not mean throw away communism to do so, as it is rather successful at doing so in many instances. I do not think Deng’s original reform was inherently revisionist either, especially with the goal of furthering development and getting the capitalist powers to warm relations, but after deng there was an immediate un-tethering of capitalism. Capitalist relations were fully re-introduced (of course majority remained in state control but a lot became privately owned). Healthcare privatization was completely unnecessary at the time and still is, and is exploitative, although the party has recently helped ensure 90 percent coverage as of recently it is still under private insurance. Capitalists dictate far too much in the economy where they shouldn’t, as seen with the re-introduction of the landlord class in the 90s only causing massive issues in the modern day that the party must amend.
China can of course reverse these revisionist tendencies and is capable of doing so, but their ‘pragmatism’ has itself become dogmatic. I have a decent amount of hope that the party can be reigned in and thus the capitalists, but only time will tell. Until then its a good trading partner, a peaceful country, and a vital part of resisting US capitalism. Very important, but the efforts can be improved.
Again, I do not claim maoism or its many critiques, i am a marxist leninist whose read mostly everyone but mao lmao.
also definitely supporting them retaking taiwan the US can fuck the hell off.
any critiques are most welcomed, as I know I have much to learn.
I’ll fully admit that I am not familiar enough to challenge anything you’ve said here correctly, no investigation, no right to speak. I don’t want you to think I didn’t read your reply, but I do not intend on trying to answer it either, as I do not know enough to give a good answer for you or myself.
I linked the thread in my original comment, but I will link it again here: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/230000
Again, I appreciate your analysis, and I don’t want you to take this as dismissive.
thank you sorry i will read this
thank you, your arguments are much appreciated and i hold many of your opinions as well. We are communists, comrades, at the end of the day!