The Galaxy class starship was designed with the ability to separate the saucer from the stardrive section, so that the ā€œfloating cityā€ part of the ship could be left somewhere safe while the rest of the ship galavants off to do something risky. We see this happen precisely once, in the season one episode Arsenal of Freedom. We also see saucer separation deployed for a handful of tactical and or emergency uses (such as against the Borg in The Best of Both Worlds, or to escape the breaching warp core in Generations).

So, this seems like a useful ability to have, and the Enterprise is constantly being sent into dangerous situations. Why not use this ability more frequently?

  • GlimmervoidG@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    13
    Ā·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I think the saucer separation ability was an example of theoretical thinking. The Galaxy class designers clearly intended a use for it. In dangerous times, the saucer would separate leaving the stardrive section free to act without it.

    But, via practical real world experience, Starfleet learned that separating the saucer section was seldom worth it. It was too slow, where danger tends to occurred suddenly, and, even when there was extra time, Galaxy captains learnt the extra power generation of the saucer proved more useful than the decrease in mass. I doubt the War Galaxys from the Dominion War even had the ability and, if they did, it was only because it would take too much work to remove.

    Itā€™s possible that the saucer section worked better as a one-use ā€˜super-lifepodā€™ but the original plan of combining and transforming ships clearly didnā€™t pan out. Same thing seems to have happened with the Prometheus with Starfleet deciding the ā€˜wolf packā€™ attack mode innovations, while effective, are better implemented via separate ships. Like we see a trio of Texas class ships doing to take down a Sovereign.

    (Thereā€™s clearly some guy in the Starfleet bureau of ship design who keeps trying to make combining/separating ships happen and keeps getting disappointed when they donā€™t pan out in practice.)

  • derf82@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    Ā·
    1 year ago

    They highlighted the tactical disadvantages in The Best Of Both Worlds. In a battle situation, the saucer sectionā€™s phaser banks, impulse drive, and fusion generators are of high importance.

    There are also alternatives. In DS9ā€™s episode introducing the Jemā€™hadar, The Odyssey simply dropped off their families before heading to the Delta quadrant.

    Iā€™m the event a hostile force is encountered, it is likely the saucer section would just be pursued and destroyed, as it could only flee on impulse or sustain a low warp is released at warp.

    So they really only used it the only times it was practical: facing Q, facing the arsenal of freedom (as the automated system only attacked ships in orbit), and as a life raft after the star drive was destroyed as in Generations.

    It might also be noted that prior Enterprises had the ability to separate the saucer on an emergency. It was just never used on screen, and also would probably require a spacedock to reassemble.

    I personally think it was just an experiment that didnā€™t work out. Perhaps they just reverted to emergency separations.

  • Wolpertinger@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    Ā·
    1 year ago

    In universe, I donā€™t know how useful saucer separation really was. Then again, I donā€™t really know how useful a floating city really was, either. It really showcased the hubris of the galaxy class design and the naivete of Starfleet at that point in time.

    At the beginning of TNG, the Federation seemed very idyllic. That started to change with the introduction to the Borg, and was completely shattered with the Dominion War (remember the Jemā€™Hadar kamikaze pilots against a galaxy class, for example). At the end of the TNG era, you donā€™t really see many galaxy class ships flying around, but more ships that are more battle ready.

    To your direct point about saucer separation, separating half the ship to leave vulnerable seemed like a bad idea. The saucer section (which had most of the population) didnā€™t really have a warp drive but it did have phasers. Still, it was susceptible to hit and run tactics while the lower portion was away.

    Additionally, the saucer had most of the phaser array - that could be handy in a fight! Why leave that behind?

    Lastly, you mentioned Generations. The saucer section couldnā€™t leave the lower section fast enough and was caught in the blast radius. The end result was the same as if traditional life boats were used - the destruction of the entire ship. In general, the separation procedure was slow. It made more sense to just take the saucer with you instead of wasting precious minutes in a separation procedure that could introduce the possibility of damage to the vessel before/after the time critical mission.

    Iā€™m not sure how useful saucer separation really was. Starfleet didnā€™t seem to think it was useful, either, as no other ship had that feature moving forward, and the one ship that was shown on screen to have it rarely used it.

    • FormerGameDev@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      Ā·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      The saucer section couldnā€™t leave the lower section fast enough and was caught in the blast radius. The end result was the same as if traditional life boats were used - the destruction of the entire ship.

      ā€¦ excluding that the lives of nearly everyone on the ship were saved, rather than everyone going kablooey in space?

      no other ship had that feature moving forward

      do we know that, or just assume it since we donā€™t see it used? I would think that it would be a standard feature, considering the possibility of the warp drive going kablooey. Or I guess warp core ejection could be the standard use caseā€¦ ?

      hmm

      unsure

      Could the Ent-D eject the warp core, or was separation the intended replacement for thatā€¦

      • williams_482@startrek.websiteOPM
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        Ā·
        1 year ago

        Galaxy class starships definitely could eject the core, but for whatever reason they couldnā€™t manage to do so in Generations.

  • thom@kbin.primitivebits.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    1
    Ā·
    1 year ago

    Because the special effects required to do it were too expensive for the production company? The Best of Both Worlds separation used footage from Farpoint, I believe.

    • Matt@netmonkey.tech
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      Ā·
      1 year ago

      Yes, Iā€™m pretty sure they used the same footage.

      Reminds me of the Klingon bird-of-prey explosion that is used in both Undiscovered Country and Generations.

  • 0DNConduit@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    Ā·
    1 year ago

    From a real world perspective, I think they just found it slowed down storytelling too much. I think the idea originally came from Gene Roddenberry and they had always been trying to make it work.

    Ironically in Best of Both Worlds, itā€™s a lure to distract the Borg from the rescue mission, and it wasnā€™t like they offloaded the kids and civilians first. Pretty high stakes gamble on Rikerā€™s part.

  • japps13@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    Ā·
    1 year ago

    Do we know if it is really used infrequently, or does it just happen that it is not used during the events pictured on screen? There is no dialog where a character claims that it is used infrequently?

    • williams_482@startrek.websiteOPM
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      Ā·
      1 year ago

      Fair question, but given the sheer volume of notable things that happen to the Enterprise over the course of the show, it seems unlikely that an event serious enough to warrant saucer separation wouldnā€™t have been shown.

      • maegul@startrek.website
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        Ā·
        1 year ago

        A lot of the focus here seems to be on the military utility, which is also how I suppose the separation feature was presented in the show.

        But an obvious use case would probably have been less dramatic. Anytime two things needed to be done at the same time. Send the drive section to the more distant or dangerous location and keep the saucer where itā€™s safer, like running supplies or something for a planet.

        Donā€™t know it would have been good TV though?! Perhaps if it was used as a plot device to put the ship in trouble?

        • wrosecrans@mstdn.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          Ā·
          1 year ago

          @maegul @williams_482 I think it would actually be good TV for Lower Decks. A California class might have to visit a Galaxy class saucer that has been left in orbit for a month managing a research expedition or a conference, while the stardrive section got delayed hunting a Romulan warbird.
          It just wouldnā€™t be good television for a show set on a Galaxy class ship. The only way to do a ā€œsplit shipā€ show would probably be to mainly follow characters on only one half.

          • williams_482@startrek.websiteOPM
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            Ā·
            1 year ago

            Yeah, thatā€™s a plausible scenario, and folding that into a Lower Decks episode is totally doable.

            The only thing Iā€™d tack on is that a hero ship getting lost chasing a Romulan Warbird is definitely interesting enough to merit an episode. With or without the saucer attached.

        • williams_482@startrek.websiteOPM
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          Ā·
          1 year ago

          Thatā€™s a fair point. The utility of the saucer as a separate craft doing different jobs is pretty limited though, which is another reason why we might not see it in day-to-day operations. There is only so much a 600m disc with no warp drive can accomplish on itā€™s own.

          • majicwalrus@startrek.website
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            Ā·
            1 year ago

            Itā€™s the no warp thing that really limits its ability. The saucer can 1. limp back home. or 2. stay put while the rest of the ship does something risky and then hope they donā€™t have to resort to number 1.

            I could see the saucer section being left in orbit to assist with evacuations while the stardrive section ā€œgoes for helpā€ but even this seems like a bit situational.

            • Sinistral2099@startrek.website
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              Ā·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Itā€™s not just the lack of warp that presents a problem. Itā€™s the lack of power generation. If I remember correctly, and Iā€™ll admit I may be misremembering, but isnā€™t the bulk of the Ent-Dā€™s energy generation done by the warp core as well? So if the saucer is separated, any heavy power use (i.e. the main phaser array, heavy transporter use, etc.) is going to require the saucer to eventually link back up to refresh itā€™s power reserves lest they end up in a Voyager power rationing situation.

              Edit: This same point is what drives me crazy when I see the separated warp nacelles in DSC. If the ship loses power for any reason, the nacelles are going to float away which just adds to the list of problems to solve when getting the ship back under way. Also, if thereā€™s a momentary power interruption to the beam emitters holding the nacelles in place, whatā€™s to stop them from launching off like warp-powered torpedoes?

              • majicwalrus@startrek.website
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                Ā·
                1 year ago

                To your comments about the floating nacelles - whatā€™s even supposed to be the point? I canā€™t imagine how having nacelles detached offers that much of an advantage.

          • maegul@startrek.website
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            Ā·
            1 year ago

            It might be big enough to work as a temporary small space station around a planet or just in some general area in need like a fleet in need of repairs and medical aid.