I disagree that Indomitus-era Imperium has been portrayed as more “heroic”, simply more competent and only in so far as it concerns Guillliman and even then there’s an interesting juxtaposition between his more “progressive” views and the reality of the Imperium, which defines the whole rebrand; storylines involving the High Lords of Terra revolting against his rule, a huge ass defeat in the Arks of Omen campaign, the Chronostrife breaking out simply because Gulliman wanted to reform the calendar…imperial incompetence and malice is on full display in all those storylines
The tension between the revived primarch and the brutal nature of the imperium creates these opportunities for interesting storytelling and it can’t simply be reduced to “Generalismo Roboute is back and has fixed the Imperium”, like memes aside that’s not what the lore is presenting, the whole point of the character now is centered around his frustration born from the fact that even with all his primarch powers all he’s managed to do is temporally stabilize half of the imperium while the other is in literal hell, that’s it, occasional military competence so the whole setting doesn’t collapse, that’s literally the full extent of the so-called “heroics” being presented…meanwhile the rest of the lore looks like the excerpts I shared above with both of those novels taking place under the Indomitus rebrand
The point of this restructuring from GW’s point of view was to create two imperiums for the fans, the noble bright imperium that Guilliman has saved (that’s still fascist af) and the nasty, brutal, mockery of fascism imperium that people who watch too many pop culture critical youtubers keep demanding…I mean half the empire is literally called Imperium Nihlus now, like how many anvils does GW need to drop on the setting before leftists get off their high chairs about this goofy ass tabletop game
I disagree that Indomitus-era Imperium has been portrayed as more “heroic”, simply more competent and only in so far as it concerns Guillliman and even then there’s an interesting juxtaposition between his more “progressive” views and the reality of the Imperium […]
The point of this restructuring from GW’s point of view was to create two imperiums for the fans, the noble bright imperium that Guilliman has saved (that’s still fascist af) and the nasty, brutal, mockery of fascism imperium that people who watch too many pop culture critical youtubers keep demanding
Right but that’s the problem: Guilliman is just a more competent fascist, and a more “noblebright” setting with the Imperium as the protagonist faction is a setting that says “fascism works, the Imperium just need to do it better”. As for the excerpts you linked, neither seem meaningfully different in tone from the older lore imo. IIRC Horus Rising has Loken being a space fascist but feeling kinda bad about it occasionally, and that was written back in 2006.
It’s also worth noting that only an extreme minority of fans are actually reading the books, and while Dante might be popular enough that a good chunk of SM bookreaders see it, Warhammer Crime is a niche within a niche. I would hazard to guess that a majority of the fanbase engages with the setting through youtube lore channels, video games, and memes, and if you go into the communities that pop up around those parts of the fandom, they get all kinds of reactionary. Imo that means that GW still has to go further in purging the chuds, which means continuing to make the space fascists look less cool. The problem here is that SM are by far the most popular faction and they absolutely will not do anything to risk losing them money.
You have an interview about the split Imperiums being a deliberate choice to make two different settings for different parts of the fanbase or something? I’ve never heard that and tbh it sounds like it’s giving GW way too much credit when it seems like they don’t generally plan the lore carefully because it’s a vehicle to sell minis and, as you say, a goofy ass tabletop game that fans take far more seriously than the creators.
I disagree that Indomitus-era Imperium has been portrayed as more “heroic”, simply more competent and only in so far as it concerns Guillliman and even then there’s an interesting juxtaposition between his more “progressive” views and the reality of the Imperium, which defines the whole rebrand; storylines involving the High Lords of Terra revolting against his rule, a huge ass defeat in the Arks of Omen campaign, the Chronostrife breaking out simply because Gulliman wanted to reform the calendar…imperial incompetence and malice is on full display in all those storylines
The tension between the revived primarch and the brutal nature of the imperium creates these opportunities for interesting storytelling and it can’t simply be reduced to “Generalismo Roboute is back and has fixed the Imperium”, like memes aside that’s not what the lore is presenting, the whole point of the character now is centered around his frustration born from the fact that even with all his primarch powers all he’s managed to do is temporally stabilize half of the imperium while the other is in literal hell, that’s it, occasional military competence so the whole setting doesn’t collapse, that’s literally the full extent of the so-called “heroics” being presented…meanwhile the rest of the lore looks like the excerpts I shared above with both of those novels taking place under the Indomitus rebrand
The point of this restructuring from GW’s point of view was to create two imperiums for the fans, the noble bright imperium that Guilliman has saved (that’s still fascist af) and the nasty, brutal, mockery of fascism imperium that people who watch too many pop culture critical youtubers keep demanding…I mean half the empire is literally called Imperium Nihlus now, like how many anvils does GW need to drop on the setting before leftists get off their high chairs about this goofy ass tabletop game
Right but that’s the problem: Guilliman is just a more competent fascist, and a more “noblebright” setting with the Imperium as the protagonist faction is a setting that says “fascism works, the Imperium just need to do it better”. As for the excerpts you linked, neither seem meaningfully different in tone from the older lore imo. IIRC Horus Rising has Loken being a space fascist but feeling kinda bad about it occasionally, and that was written back in 2006.
It’s also worth noting that only an extreme minority of fans are actually reading the books, and while Dante might be popular enough that a good chunk of SM bookreaders see it, Warhammer Crime is a niche within a niche. I would hazard to guess that a majority of the fanbase engages with the setting through youtube lore channels, video games, and memes, and if you go into the communities that pop up around those parts of the fandom, they get all kinds of reactionary. Imo that means that GW still has to go further in purging the chuds, which means continuing to make the space fascists look less cool. The problem here is that SM are by far the most popular faction and they absolutely will not do anything to risk losing them money.
You have an interview about the split Imperiums being a deliberate choice to make two different settings for different parts of the fanbase or something? I’ve never heard that and tbh it sounds like it’s giving GW way too much credit when it seems like they don’t generally plan the lore carefully because it’s a vehicle to sell minis and, as you say, a goofy ass tabletop game that fans take far more seriously than the creators.