In light of recent demonstrations against the war in Gaza, the Swedish Migration Minister, Johan Forssell, has said that people who praise terrorist organisations and who do not have Swedish citizenship should not be in Sweden. These comments followed reports that during the demonstration, which was initiated in support of the Gaza people, flags of […]

KEY TAKEAWAYS

  • Swedish Minister wants to deport migrants who do not hold Swedish citizenship if they show support to terrorist groups.
  • The spokesperson for migration policy in Sweden wants the law to be even more stringent - to include anyone who shows such acts of support.
  • Tourists, citizens, and residence permit holders can all be affected by such changes.
    • Cornpop@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1212·
      2 months ago

      It’s a bad situation. Muslim culture is incompatible with Swedish values. This is why Sweden is starting to lean to the right and there is growth with the nazis. The Swedes are very kind people and they wanted to help but this mass Muslim migration has backfired on them pretty bad. There are now much more attacks on women and LGBT people. The crime has skyrocketed. Rapes have skyrocketed. I travel back and forth between the USA and Sweden often to visit family, and have steadily watched how things have gotten worse.

      • lime!@feddit.nuEnglish
        183·
        2 months ago

        i mean, no. there is nothing in “Muslim culture” about forming criminal gangs and throwing grenades. this is all about our social systems breaking down due to being overloaded. it’s an integration failure on the state’s part. people were put in places that were already not well off and that forms societal black holes where it is very difficult to get away. organized crime then seems very attractive.

        the attacks on women and hbtq+ people are by those selfsame nazis. crime has, interestingly enough, stayed the same. violent crime has risen, yes, but other crime has fallen as a result.

        rapes have not skyrocketed. this is a common right-wing talking point outside of sweden, and “ex-pats” love using this as an example of how the country has gone to shit. what actually happened was we changed the way crimes are reported, to make things that were formerly sexual harassment classify as rape of some degree. this is a good thing, as it highlights these behaviours as unacceptable rather than them just being tolerated.

        honestly, it sounds like you should talk to more people while visiting.

        • Iceblade@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          2 months ago

          Peak ignorance right here. It’s a combination of factors. The origin point is indeed the utter failure to set up proper integration systems and regulate migration during the 2010s, which in turn meant that the people who came here were not educated in Swedish language, laws and values, leaving them outside the jobs market. It is also made worse by the fact that a significant portion of the people who came during that period have been brought up in cultures with highly incompatible views and values (for a concrete example, considering secular law a subordinate to religious shariah laws) , which makes integration that much more difficult. After some 7 years, only a third of adult Syrians have managed to get jobs - compare this to recent Ukranian refugees, where 2/3rds have jobs after two years.

          For instance, whilst I worked in healthcare in Sweden, we on several occasions had patients refuse care from female coworkers on account of them being women. Something basically previously unheard of that’s became a recurring issue. Every time it happened, it was a non-Swede, and oftentimes they had difficulties with speaking the language. Now I’ve had plenty of Swedish patients who were casually misogynistic against my coworkers, but never to the degree that they would demand to be treated by a man and outright refuse care.

          rapes have not skyrocketed. this is a common right-wing talking point outside of sweden, and “ex-pats” love using this as an example of how the country has gone to shit. what actually happened was we changed the way crimes are reported, to make things that were formerly sexual harassment classify as rape of some degree. this is a good thing, as it highlights these behaviours as unacceptable rather than them just being tolerated.

          I have included some pertinent statistics from the past twenty years [Source is BRÅ (Swedish ministry for crime prevention) - www.bra.se]

          There has long trend of increasing sexual crimes of almost all types in Sweden (The only exception is sexual coercion), the change in definitions was limited, and is really only a minor confounding factor when compared to the overall picture. Besides, in 2019 they did their best to split out the expanded definitions (see rows 3 & 4) and the number of crimes covered are very small in comparison to the whole.

          As for the demographics of those convicted, I find this far less relevant. Migrants are the victims in the majority of crimes committed by migrants (and the criminals and terrorists in question represent a minority of that group). As such, upholding the law is as much for the sake of the larger migrant community as for Swedish society as a whole.

          However, if you’re still interested in the connections between demographics and crime, you can read here:

          https://doi.org/10.1080/20961790.2020.1868681

          • lime!@feddit.nuEnglish
            3·
            2 months ago

            this is good data. it feels weird to open a post with an insult only to then align with what i said albeit with more nuance than i could be bothered to add in a post on an internet forum. the brå statistic is a bit more dour than i’d wished. it would be interesting to see the number per capita, as our population has swelled a lot since 2000.

            and yeah, the values thing. i am all for “when in rome”, and that seems increasingly uncommon. i have never encountered it personally but it is obviously happening. i wouldn’t take it as far as the previous guy did though, because you get into Nyheter Idag territory if you go that way.

            also the research article cuts off before the migrant crisis started…

            • Iceblade@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              2 months ago

              also the research article cuts off before the migrant crisis started…

              The migrant crisis was already at its peak in 2015 (when the data cut off). Other studies on general crime suggests further skewing of demographics after 2015, but they do not study specifically sexual crimes.

              then align with what i said albeit with more nuance than i could be bothered to add

              Except it doesn’t. Your conclusions were that (a) this is only because our social systems are breaking down, (b) attacks on women & lgbt individuals are perpetrated by nazis and has stayed the same, © rape has not increased.

              On (a), I contrast your singular cause with the fact that social breakdown is caused by a combination of what you mentioned, what the original guy mentioned (albeit in somewhat more polite terms) and a failure to align the amount of people that were taken in with the capacity of our social systems.

              On (b) & ©, these statements are just plain wrong, as indicated by both the BRÅ data and the linked study. The trend of sex crimes increasing starts before the change in definitions, and they are (according to the cited study) usually perpetrated by non-Swedes.

              As for population increase, the number of registered people in Sweden was 10’551’707 on dec. 31st 2023 and 8’975’670 on dec. 31st 2003, which is an increase of 20%. Thus, accounting for the population increase, the rate of sex crimes in Sweden has increased by 103.6% since the year 2003 and rapes by 208%.

              E: 2000 -> 2003

              • lime!@feddit.nuEnglish
                2·
                2 months ago

                you’re sort of mixing my points together in order to get the least charitable interpretation. the “only” and “and” are doing some heavy lifting. i don’t feel like doing this whole semantic song and dance every time i post something just because people refuse to read between the lines. let’s leave it at you gave numbers and those numbers taught me something.

                • Iceblade@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  2·
                  2 months ago

                  To be fair, you did the same with the OP, even if their wording may have been a bit more sensationalist than yours :)

                  I’m glad you found the data enlightening though, feel free to poke me if you want some pointers on finding data on BRÅ or SCB, they’re veritable treasure troves of info and it’s all publicly available.

        • Hyperlon@lemmy.worldEnglish
          42·
          2 months ago

          If the social systems are breaking down from being overloaded, it sounds like too many immigrants were accepted and some need to be sent back.

            • Iceblade@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              2 months ago

              Not OP but I like poking around statistics, and dislike when people misrepresent data.

              Here is 20 years of data for sex crimes from BRÅ in all of its glory (for our non-swedish speaking friends who might have a hard time figuring out what’s what on a Swedish website). For context, “Våldtäkt” means rape, which is the second row with numbers in our table. This is the one we’ll be looking at.

              there was a spike in reported rapes after 2014 since the definition of rape was altered, but that has decreased since 2016.

              This isn’t quite right.

              As we can see in the above table, the number of reported rapes has increased by some 38.7% since 2014 and 38.4% since 2016 (contrary to your claims). We can also see that the trend of increasing sexual crimes in Sweden has been ongoing since before the change in definitions, which indicates that this likely isn’t the primary cause of the increase, and furthermore that this trend persisted through to 2022.

              For those of y’all who lived in countries with lockdowns, and are surprised by an increase through the pandemic, we didn’t have lockdowns here in Sweden. As a matter of fact, there were quite a few young people who came here visiting from other Schengen countries specifically to escape lockdown.

              When looking at the larger picture, we can see that there’s a longer trend of increasing sex crimes, going on for many years. Comparing to the year 2003, the per-capita adjusted increase of reported sex crimes is 103.6% and of reported rapes 208%.

              Here’s also a study on demographics of perpetrators of rape in Sweden. The most shocking piece of data in it is clearly that 0.3% of those convicted aren’t men, the real champions of gender equality…

              https://doi.org/10.1080/20961790.2020.1868681

              The crime has skyrocketed. Rapes have skyrocketed