There is a presumption from conservative/fascist women that they occupy a position of hierarchy over non-fascist/non-conservative women. That by virtue of supporting fascism and patriarchy that fascist men will afford them personhood. They don’t believe in any of the assertions of feminism. They instead believe that women who suffer at the hands of men simply deserve it. That all women are judged in some kind of meritocracy, where belief in fascism and support of fascists itself is a determining factor of merit.
This may be true for some women, maybe in the “tradwife” and white supremacist circles. But if, as you say, it’s critical to understand what these women think, you have to understand that they are not a monolith. There are other motivations to consider.
I was raised in a fundamentalist, evangelical church. Within that community, there was no presumption of a hierarchical position over other women. There was only our god-given position to be subservient to our fathers, and later, our husbands. We could either obey the divine plan to someday reach heaven or disobey it and be resigned to hell. There was no in-between.
Now, a reasonable person would see this as patently ridiculous. But the problem is that reason has no place in this worldview. You doggedly follow a literal interpretation of the King James Bible, or you go to hell.
Many years ago, when I was 16, I had asked for a particular privilege. And my mother agreed to grant it if I would listen to some audio tapes that she had of a series of sermons from a woman. Now, that was unusual in itself, because women are not allowed to teach men within fundamentalist churches (Because The Bible Says So™). So this was definitely a teaching that was only meant for women. What I heard was horrifying.
The entire point of this sermon series was to teach women how to be good, submissive Christian wives. The lesson of one tape was literally that if your husband commanded you to commit murder, you would have to do it, because God put him in charge of you and your duty to God was simply to follow orders from your husband.
A woman would not be judged for breaking a commandment if she followed the direction of her husband. The husband would be punished for causing someone to break God’s commandments, but the wife would be spared because she was simply doing her duty as a wife to follow what her husband said.
Women’s agency is completely removed in this scenario. Which sounds exactly like what the men described in the article want.
Again, the problem here is that reason has no purchase in this worldview. No amount of evidence or argument is going to change their minds or magically give them a sense of agency.
I really appreciate you sharing your own experiences here, having experienced life in these fundamentalist communities. Youre right, there definitely is far more nuance to the beliefs of right-wing women than just “they feel and think X way.” For what it’s worth I’m sorry you went through that. I hope that you’re in a safer and happier place now.
It is bleak how little we can do for women who are fully indoctrinated into that worldview. They will push back against women’s rights every time. Liberation could possibly change some of their minds, but it’s impossible to predict. Deradicalization is not a task based in repeatability. It isn’t something we can do reliably. It depends entirely on the radicalized individual.
Yes, I’m living my best life now in spite of everything I was taught in my formative years.
You’re right about that whole last paragraph. Of the dozen-ish kids from my small, rural church who were in our youth group together, I’m the only one who got out. The rest of them are raising their own teens in the church now, most of them still even in the same town.
I don’t know what made me so different. I always had a keen sense of logic, and I was just rebellious enough to question things. I also had access to “heretical” art that helped me feel less alone (shout out to '90s alternative rock). I wasn’t the only one of us who went to university, but I was the only one who moved out of my family home to do it.
I don’t think there’s anything I could say to any of them now that would make them reconsider their worldview. Of course, that works both ways. I know they consider me a sort of “fallen woman” for having strayed from the Straight and Narrow™.
Can confirm, was also raised as a woman in a fundamentalist church. We didn’t stick just to the KJV, but then the pastor would turn around and preach out of LaHay’s Left Behind series too, soooooo.
When I was 17, I went to a youth christian convention, and during the main speaker, they had the thousands of teens and 20somes in the audience participate in a mass marriage to god. They said that god would provide a good husband for me.
Then I got raped and made the mistake of turning to the bible for comfort. The bible says that women who get raped in the city should be put to death, and women who get raped outside the city need to marry their rapist. Now, the text I read made it sound like it wasn’t really the location, but whether or not she screamed, and I had screamed, so I reasoned that I needed to marry the man instead of killing myself.
This may be true for some women, maybe in the “tradwife” and white supremacist circles. But if, as you say, it’s critical to understand what these women think, you have to understand that they are not a monolith. There are other motivations to consider.
I was raised in a fundamentalist, evangelical church. Within that community, there was no presumption of a hierarchical position over other women. There was only our god-given position to be subservient to our fathers, and later, our husbands. We could either obey the divine plan to someday reach heaven or disobey it and be resigned to hell. There was no in-between.
Now, a reasonable person would see this as patently ridiculous. But the problem is that reason has no place in this worldview. You doggedly follow a literal interpretation of the King James Bible, or you go to hell.
Many years ago, when I was 16, I had asked for a particular privilege. And my mother agreed to grant it if I would listen to some audio tapes that she had of a series of sermons from a woman. Now, that was unusual in itself, because women are not allowed to teach men within fundamentalist churches (Because The Bible Says So™). So this was definitely a teaching that was only meant for women. What I heard was horrifying.
The entire point of this sermon series was to teach women how to be good, submissive Christian wives. The lesson of one tape was literally that if your husband commanded you to commit murder, you would have to do it, because God put him in charge of you and your duty to God was simply to follow orders from your husband.
A woman would not be judged for breaking a commandment if she followed the direction of her husband. The husband would be punished for causing someone to break God’s commandments, but the wife would be spared because she was simply doing her duty as a wife to follow what her husband said.
Women’s agency is completely removed in this scenario. Which sounds exactly like what the men described in the article want.
Again, the problem here is that reason has no purchase in this worldview. No amount of evidence or argument is going to change their minds or magically give them a sense of agency.
I really appreciate you sharing your own experiences here, having experienced life in these fundamentalist communities. Youre right, there definitely is far more nuance to the beliefs of right-wing women than just “they feel and think X way.” For what it’s worth I’m sorry you went through that. I hope that you’re in a safer and happier place now.
It is bleak how little we can do for women who are fully indoctrinated into that worldview. They will push back against women’s rights every time. Liberation could possibly change some of their minds, but it’s impossible to predict. Deradicalization is not a task based in repeatability. It isn’t something we can do reliably. It depends entirely on the radicalized individual.
Yes, I’m living my best life now in spite of everything I was taught in my formative years.
You’re right about that whole last paragraph. Of the dozen-ish kids from my small, rural church who were in our youth group together, I’m the only one who got out. The rest of them are raising their own teens in the church now, most of them still even in the same town.
I don’t know what made me so different. I always had a keen sense of logic, and I was just rebellious enough to question things. I also had access to “heretical” art that helped me feel less alone (shout out to '90s alternative rock). I wasn’t the only one of us who went to university, but I was the only one who moved out of my family home to do it.
I don’t think there’s anything I could say to any of them now that would make them reconsider their worldview. Of course, that works both ways. I know they consider me a sort of “fallen woman” for having strayed from the Straight and Narrow™.
Can confirm, was also raised as a woman in a fundamentalist church. We didn’t stick just to the KJV, but then the pastor would turn around and preach out of LaHay’s Left Behind series too, soooooo.
When I was 17, I went to a youth christian convention, and during the main speaker, they had the thousands of teens and 20somes in the audience participate in a mass marriage to god. They said that god would provide a good husband for me.
Then I got raped and made the mistake of turning to the bible for comfort. The bible says that women who get raped in the city should be put to death, and women who get raped outside the city need to marry their rapist. Now, the text I read made it sound like it wasn’t really the location, but whether or not she screamed, and I had screamed, so I reasoned that I needed to marry the man instead of killing myself.
I am so sorry that happened to you and that the place where you turned for help just added to your trauma.
Well, good news is that I’ve been out of that fuggin cult for nearly 20 years now, and therapy has done so much more for me than religion ever has.
Amen, sister.
Damn, I saw the same kind of thing. Most of the non denominational churches are poisoning society for a sliver of power, if only over the women.