Those “fancy steps” are the only things that would make this legal. Without them, all he’s doing is violating the Constitution. DC presents a unique loophole for this. Anywhere else, and he’s breaking the law.
No one is “letting him”. There are dozens of active cases against him and his administration, right now. The process takes time, and the media never covers it adequately…but the system is still working.
If the system were working Cannon could not have effectively blocked Trump’s prosecution.
If the system were working the leader of an insurrection against the government of the United States could not have even RUN for President, much less BEEN SWORN IN.
If the system were working the personal attorney for the most vile and morally corrupt President in our nation’s history would not have been NONINATED, much less CONFIRMED to a federal appellate court.
THE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING. Any conclusions predicated on another other assumption are simply wrong.
you’re right that the system is working. it is giving us its ultimate: fascism. this is the intended outcome for profit seeking capitalists. if you mean to say our system of American justice is working… surely you jest.
So…do you agree with Trump when he tries to suspend or ignore the legal process? Is that your solution? Just, “as long as it’s us doing it, it’s fine”?
It’s kind of bizarre to advocate for the very same shit he’s pulling, as a defense against the kind of shit he keeps trying to pull.
Dude. That’s literally the same argument Trump was using for why he should be allowed to just deport people without due process. This is not the “solution” you think it is.
No, I’m saying that the basic principles of law and justice shouldn’t be abandoned just because there are people in the world who try and game the system.
It seems like everyone these days, agrees with Trump’s vision of what the law should look like. My side gets a pass…and everyone I think is “bad”, gets their rights taken away. People just seem to disagree about who should be punished without due process.
It’s not a “moral high ground” issue. It’s basic common sense. You want a legal system that’s based on facts? You want people’s rights to be respected? You can’t have those things, if you throw them all out the window anytime things don’t work out exactly the way you want them to.
Those are the things you have to fight to protect. If every law that got broken, meant the law was pointless…then we would have no laws.
It seems like everyone these days, agrees with Trump’s vision of what the law should look like. My side gets a pass…and everyone I think is “bad”, gets their rights taken away.
This is not what’s happening here. Nobody (on the left) is giving any side a “pass”. What the fuck is this strawman?
DC is under Marshall law in all but name right now.
“The Process takes time…” At this rate the process will get around to warning him he should stop shortly after he executes his political opponents and just before he starts executing judges who opposes him.
DC isn’t under martial law. Technically, the district belongs to the federal government already, they’ve just been under a kind of conditional self-administration since the 70’s, I think? The only way to take away Trump’s authority over it, would be to grant DC official status as a State.
And just curious…what system would you suggest, that is better than what’s currently in place?
“Yes, the current system is slow and ineffective, and has done nothing to prevent the incarceration and deportation of innocent people, misappropriation of funds, and misuse of the military, but to demand anything else would be going against the ineffective system!”
The current process of Due Process is allowing blatantly illegal activities to continue unhindered because “we need to give them time to comply even when they are clearly not going to.” You need a different process, and pointing out that the system is not working is perfectly valid.
Russia is in full scale war, and has not formally declared war, but they are operating as if they have.
Trump would do the same, a bunch of different declarations that are in practice, Martial law, but without actually saying it, because Martial law is too obvious of a rubicon.
GOP MAGA is trying to boil the frog, what determines if there will be a revolution or not is if huge parts of the country suddenley believe we’ve crossed the rubicon, the point of no return. And it benefits MAGA for those people to have unique turning points, some will wait until X happens, Some wont take up arms until Y happens, It benefits them to boil the frog slowly, because it allows them to secure their position more and more before a potential confrontation happens
declaring martial law is a clear sign to everyone “Yup, Im declaring the civil war” its too obvious, it doesnt benefit Trump to do that until he thinks he is ready, and at that point he’s already won and will be untouchable.
This is damn near the same thing, without all the fancy steps.
Those “fancy steps” are the only things that would make this legal. Without them, all he’s doing is violating the Constitution. DC presents a unique loophole for this. Anywhere else, and he’s breaking the law.
He’s breaking the law all over the US, when you’re rich… they let you. This is no different. Let’s see some consequences somewhere.
No one is “letting him”. There are dozens of active cases against him and his administration, right now. The process takes time, and the media never covers it adequately…but the system is still working.
If the system were working Cannon could not have effectively blocked Trump’s prosecution. If the system were working the leader of an insurrection against the government of the United States could not have even RUN for President, much less BEEN SWORN IN. If the system were working the personal attorney for the most vile and morally corrupt President in our nation’s history would not have been NONINATED, much less CONFIRMED to a federal appellate court.
THE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING. Any conclusions predicated on another other assumption are simply wrong.
you’re right that the system is working. it is giving us its ultimate: fascism. this is the intended outcome for profit seeking capitalists. if you mean to say our system of American justice is working… surely you jest.
This is why we’re doomed. I cannot believe there are people who still think like this
isn’t it disgusting? depressing as hell how these people still feel so confident in “the system.”
So…do you agree with Trump when he tries to suspend or ignore the legal process? Is that your solution? Just, “as long as it’s us doing it, it’s fine”?
It’s kind of bizarre to advocate for the very same shit he’s pulling, as a defense against the kind of shit he keeps trying to pull.
Remember this exchange.
That’s entirely the point. Legal channels are too show to counteract everything at once. See Bannon’s “stress test”.
Dude. That’s literally the same argument Trump was using for why he should be allowed to just deport people without due process. This is not the “solution” you think it is.
So you’re saying we should “go high”… How has that been working out thus far?
No, I’m saying that the basic principles of law and justice shouldn’t be abandoned just because there are people in the world who try and game the system.
It seems like everyone these days, agrees with Trump’s vision of what the law should look like. My side gets a pass…and everyone I think is “bad”, gets their rights taken away. People just seem to disagree about who should be punished without due process.
It’s not a “moral high ground” issue. It’s basic common sense. You want a legal system that’s based on facts? You want people’s rights to be respected? You can’t have those things, if you throw them all out the window anytime things don’t work out exactly the way you want them to.
Those are the things you have to fight to protect. If every law that got broken, meant the law was pointless…then we would have no laws.
This is not what’s happening here. Nobody (on the left) is giving any side a “pass”. What the fuck is this strawman?
DC is under Marshall law in all but name right now.
“The Process takes time…” At this rate the process will get around to warning him he should stop shortly after he executes his political opponents and just before he starts executing judges who opposes him.
DC isn’t under martial law. Technically, the district belongs to the federal government already, they’ve just been under a kind of conditional self-administration since the 70’s, I think? The only way to take away Trump’s authority over it, would be to grant DC official status as a State.
And just curious…what system would you suggest, that is better than what’s currently in place?
If you’re not going to bother reading posts before replying what’s the point?
It’s not even “in all but name”, though. Martial law is not even remotely the same thing as just calling in the national guard…especially in DC.
Calling in the National Guard to do what?
SCOTUS:
It doesn’t fucking matter. He’ll do it all anyway, without ever declaring martial law. And what the fuck is anyone going to do about it?
Law means nothing unless there’s some means to enforce it
It means even less, if your first impulse is to toss it all out the window as soon as it’s no longer convenient for you to follow it.
“Yes, the current system is slow and ineffective, and has done nothing to prevent the incarceration and deportation of innocent people, misappropriation of funds, and misuse of the military, but to demand anything else would be going against the ineffective system!”
So, because people are currently being denied the right to due process…due process itself, doesn’t work?
The current process of Due Process is allowing blatantly illegal activities to continue unhindered because “we need to give them time to comply even when they are clearly not going to.” You need a different process, and pointing out that the system is not working is perfectly valid.
You sound just like Trump, now…you get that, right?
Martial Law is too obvious.
Russia is in full scale war, and has not formally declared war, but they are operating as if they have. Trump would do the same, a bunch of different declarations that are in practice, Martial law, but without actually saying it, because Martial law is too obvious of a rubicon.
GOP MAGA is trying to boil the frog, what determines if there will be a revolution or not is if huge parts of the country suddenley believe we’ve crossed the rubicon, the point of no return. And it benefits MAGA for those people to have unique turning points, some will wait until X happens, Some wont take up arms until Y happens, It benefits them to boil the frog slowly, because it allows them to secure their position more and more before a potential confrontation happens
declaring martial law is a clear sign to everyone “Yup, Im declaring the civil war” its too obvious, it doesnt benefit Trump to do that until he thinks he is ready, and at that point he’s already won and will be untouchable.
And the consequences of him breaking the law will be…? He’ll get arrested and prosecuted like a civilian?
That’s what I was thinking… this just isn’t that different. It’s already here