• autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Ok but the fact that they took hostages that are just “regular settlers” rather than active service members doesn’t mean Hamas’s goals are to wipe out every settler. And you are acting like if people don’t side with the idea of wiping out every settler we aren’t siding with Palestine. But thats not even the goal of Hamas. You just made that shit up in your head.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Their goal is to wipe out Zionism and that means pushing all settlers out of stolen Palestinian land, by force if necessary. I guess that is different in the sense that if they kill enough settlers the rest would probably give up on Zionism - I’m also certain that meets the definition of genocide.

      Or I guess the settlers could just suddenly decide to leave on their own because they realized they don’t belong there.

      But that’s idealism.

      EDIT I guess I’m just assuming really huge number of settlers need to die to defeat the Zionist project. Am I being cynical?

      • BeamBrain [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Settler/indigenous is a material relation though, which means it can change if the political landscape changes. If the Palestinians emerge victorious and create a Palestinian state and everyone living in that territory becomes a Palestinian, then those former Israelis aren’t settlers anymore. Realistically that process involves killing or driving off the settlers in large numbers to destroy the strength and morale of their political movement, but they aren’t some kind of gray goo that you have to eradicate down to the last molecule. Historically most decolonization movements, e.g. in South Africa and Algeria, just won the war, a large majority of settlers fucked off because they didn’t get to be colonial lords anymore, and the rest capable of being decent human beings stayed, paid some measure of restitutions, and remained as citizens of the new indigenous state.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Realistically that process involves killing or driving off the settlers in large numbers to destroy the strength and morale of their political movement, but they aren’t some kind of gray goo that you have to eradicate down to the last molecule.

          Genocide doesn’t require the absolute eradication to the last molecule either; the destruction of a national group through mass killing is genocide.

          Which is exactly what you describe: destroy Israel by first killing lots of settlers and then destroy the Israeli national identity by making everyone Palestinian.

          … so this conversation has made me realize “genocide” is an imprecise word. Israel committing genocide means mass killing and then expulsion of all Palestinians to the last child. Hamas committing “genocide” means protracted warfare where a huge number of reservists and bystanders die and then a reconciliation process afterwards where Israel’s state is dismantled. Calling that “genocide” is technically correct and doesn’t really match what Israel wants to do at all, and I don’t know what to do about that.