I wanna preface this with: Iām learning and I want to learn. I have so many questions and Iād love to hear the perspectives of some seasoned anarchists on my thoughts and questions. Iām here to learn, and I greatly appreciate any input anyone can give.
Iām confused. I have so many anarchist friends, and I politically relate to them on a very very deep level. In a lot of ways I consider myself an anarchist, I sympathise with it for so many reasons:
- Iāve been let down by so many electoral movements the last 10 years, and thereās somethin so empowering about not asking or waiting for help
- Anarchist calisthenics has changed my life, not asking for permission to change things, to take charge
- I believe in the power of the grass roots, that ultimately, if enough of us got together, we can make the change we want
- Whenever a disaster occurs, look around: thereās anarchists everywhere. In natural disasters? Anarchist groups are found distributing food, water and shelter. In homeless crisis? Theyāre found in soup kitchens distributing food.
- It challenges systems of power by default that governments use to harm marginalised folk
Despite all of this? Iām still a member of my countryās Green Party. We have a very progressive leader and their policies could make a huge difference to my life and the people I care about, my community, everyone. While Iām not going to rely on them to win power, or even to hold onto their promises, I canāt help but feel like itās still worth campaigning for them because I feel like it moves me closer to a country where more of us have the help we need.
Some of my anarchist friends shit on these electoral parties (even if theyāre super progressive). And I understand why, and I feel itās difficult to critique them for it, because electoral politics has rarely won us any consistent safety or justice.
But as a disabled trans person, Iāve been on the shit side of the state so oftenā¦ that no matter whoās in power, Iāll always feel like an adversary to the state. Because at the end of the day: the state has power, and itās difficult to invision a state that doesnāt abuse vulnerable groups (perhaps thatās a problem?).
On the other hand? I also feel likeā¦ The state is a central entity that can organise large amount of resources much easier than the people themselves can. And after centuries of capitalism, is it possible for enough of us to work with each other to build power, community, care and resources outside of the constraints the government and state give us?
Iām also well aware that anarchism isnāt the absence of hierarchy necessarily, itās the conscious understanding and consent to hierarchy that we choose (if Iām understanding it correctly). Whether thatās through choosing people to lead certain things or groups to do it etc. but then Iām also like: is it human nature that problematic hierarchies occur, whether through governance or anarchism?
Thatās my other question: the way I feel Iām an anarchist is as an activist. Which is to say: when I cover up fascist stickers and propaganda in my city? Iām not waiting for the government and I donāt care about the laws that prohibit me from doing it. But as far as changing things on a societal and cultural level? I feel this conflict: I feel the need to work within electoral politics to temper the rise of the far right parties in my countryā¦ but at the same time I recognise this system is a sinking ship, and therefore? I want to build resources, community and support on the ground irrespective of government.
I donāt knowā¦ Iām very confused and I donāt know what Iām thinking, saying or doing. I feel like these contradictions are incompatible with anarchism. But do my values and praxis make me an anarchist, even if Iām participating in electoral politics? Am I wrong for wanting to seek some electoral power to at least have a leader in my country thatās NOT a raging transphobe, or neo Nazi?
I know donāt necessarily have to choose between the two (though I guess it depends on who you ask), but I wonder: how do you reconcile the contradictions?
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Vote or not, and donāt judge others.
Anarchists waste too much energy debating electoralism, even while our numbers are too small alone to make any difference.
Progressive victories only come when the working class is organized well enough to press masses of workers to vote for progressive tickets.
I think this is the crux for me. Like donāt get me wrong: Iād love it if we were all enlightened anarchists, but weāre not right now. Meanwhile, fascism is on the rise in my country and the state is harming my people. I recognise I canāt fully rely on the state to help, but it feels like providing resources to both anarchist movements and an anti fascist environmental party could certainly be a lot worse. Though ultimately my goal would be to have enough people on the ground reliant on each other tha the government to build power.
this person is not just voting they are campaigning and an active member of a party there is a difference there even if everyone else is ignoring it.
CEO? Of anarchism?
You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
You know there is such thing as joke handles right? Thatās the point.
And my use of a meme to point it out was so serious.
I mean, Iāve met plenty of anarchists whoāve temporarily lent their energy to all kinds of different campaigns.
One group was simultaneously doing resupply operations for a EF tree-sit and trying to get a city council member elected. And running a food-not-bombs. And a free store. And organizing reggae and folk punk shows under bridges and on rooftops.
Actually I do have a couple more fundamental nitpicks.
The state is a central entity that can organise large amount of resources much easier than the people themselves can.
IMO this is contrary to the thesis of anarchism, and itās just not true. Decentralized systems are much more nimble. Free people in free systems are free to adapt. Anarchism is not against organization at scale. We just need to make sure that large-scale organizations are limited in power and scope, and are based on principles of free association and refusal to oppress others.
And after centuries of capitalism, is it possible for enough of us to work with each other to build power, community, care and resources outside of the constraints the government and state give us?
Emphatic yes!
So I guessā¦ with relation to the big government thing, I think another comment has got me on side with what youāve said here. But I stillā¦ Idk I struggle to see it as more effective because I suppose I donāt know of any examples. Like the way Iām seeing it right now is: my country has had 20 years of crippling austerity, of which Iāve fallen victim to. Donāt get me wrong, mutual aid is amazing, but I donāt feel like thereās enough of it in our communities to be as effective right nowĀ . But then, I guess thatās more of an āthereās not enough people doing it yetā kind of thing than anything else.
I think thatās why Iāve become a hell if a lot more keen to build local community, particularly with people who engage in mutual aid. So that we can all be in community together and provide for each other.
The state is not primordial, did not form overnight. No other form of organization is or will either.
Except overnightoatsism, but that has a lot of problems; is primarily concerned with breakfast
Damage reduction by electoral politics is also good. If you manage to shift the government in a significant way towards less oppression by some miracle, even better.
No no no electoral politics and being an active campaigner for a bourgeois party for āharm reductionā is not anarchist behavior at all I canāt believe what our movements come to recently no past anarchist was campaigning for William Jenning Bryan or other āprogressivesā for harm reduction and sure donāt blindly follow them but also donāt ignore all their arguments and all anarchist valued and philosophy to do electorilism.
People really do not grasp the concept of ādual powerā and harm reduction when it comes to anarchist āparticipationā in electoralists systems.
You donāt try to shift it to be less oppressive. None of this āchange the system from the insideā nonsense. It is oppressive by its very fundamental nature. The only reason for an anarchist to participate in the electoralist system is to protect the interests of the collective and ensure that you are able to conduct your internal business as you see fit. This means lobbying and leveraging your local power to prevent private industry from forcing their way in to extract the wealth of your community while simultaneously facilitating the existence of anarchist structures.
Essentially, you become a roadblock for private interests while facilitating the growth of anarchist and community interests.
I mean you donāt have to agree with anarchists 100% to be an anarchist. Iām extremely anti-electoralism myself but we can totally agree to disagree on this issue.
You do not need to be perfect to be anarchist. You do not need anyones permissions to be an anarchist. But you also dont have to be an anarchist to vibe and cooperate with anarchists, their ideas and practices.
You sound less like you want to know what to call yourselfĀ¹ and more like you want to resolve what you feel is a contradiction. Do correct me if Iām wrong here.
Purism is of limited utility. So how do you fit your values commonly associated with disparate ideologies together? I have ideas, but I want to see evidence youāve tried this rather than just fitting yourself to a prefab mould before I tell you what occurs to me.
Iām very confused and donāt know what Iām thinking saying or doing. does this make me an anarchist?
Iāll try not to take that as an insult, but Iām pretty sure anyone self aware of any ideology that allows self awareness feels that way sometimes.
Ā¹thatās for communicating not thinking. Tell people what communicates what youāre trying to communicate in that moment. Donāt stress about totalizing definitions. Fuck that shit.
youāre totally right, I think itās more about the contradiction than the label itself.
as far as integrating my anarchist values go:
- Do I campaign go for the English Green Party? Yeah. Do I expect that to change everythingĀ and liberate us all? Not really. I recognise that it would help more of usĀ if we had a party that advocates for UBI, better trans rights and rights for disabled folk. I recognise itās make our aims as anarchists easier if weāre not operating on survival mode as much.
- i also feel like, in electoral politics, the Greens are the only ones right now advocating against fascism in our political system. Again, I donāt think theyāre going to be our hero when it comes to stopping fascism, that work needs to be done by the people on the grass roots. So the anarchist part of me recognises that itās vital to build community power, to destroy the systems of power that fascists build on a local level and educate people to do the same.
- In the same vein as ānot waiting for electoral power to save usā, Iām working on providing resources for my community. Thereās no use in campaigning for electoral power if youāre just sitting there watching the current govt kick the shit out of your community. For me that means using my skills: developing websites to distribute information for my community (vague but donāt wanna dox myself), educating the people around me to get them on board, to work with food banks, hosting community events for trans people (Iām trans).
- I also engage in mutual aid. I have virtually no money to give at the moment, but when I do? I always donate whatever I can. Not that itās about money anyway. I always offer to help with doctors appointments, form filling and providing resources or information about transition to any of my friends or their friends. I still have a lot to learn about mutual aid but Iām working on it.
I guess thatās how I reconcile the contradictions. Canāt say it feels like enough, hence the post I suppose. I think for me, notĀ engaging in an electoral movement thatās spreading anti fascist talking points and moving people over from the rightĀ is an opportunity that feels reckless to miss. Because as much as Iād love it if enough people on the ground got into anarchism and learned, thatās not the reality Iām living in, and while I build that reality I feel like this is a good compromise? Idk, I feel like I could be operating from a lot of logical fallacies.
Eh, enough. So hereās my thought: the state currently exists.
The state is a piece of shit that wants to enslave or kill you.
The state is unlikely to give you anything you want without a gun to its head or a lot of shaming; external pressure/organizing
The state finds it easier to concede when it can pretend its doing so on its own terms and isnāt concedeing, youāre conceding, shut up
Thereās more to organizing than the state, which does fundamentally fucking hate you
Am I wrong for wanting to seek some electoral power to at least have a leader in my country thatās NOT a raging transphobe, or neo Nazi?
Nope, but it might not mean youāre an anarchist. I stress the word āmight.ā
Anarchy is a philosophy, not a destination, as you kind of alluded to. I plan to vote in the coming elections and continue to participate in electoral politics, because I recognize that this system will not be replaced simply by non-participation. There are not yet enough anarchists to just overturn what has been the norm for a long time.
That does not mean, however, that I will be satisfied with this system. Itās going to continue to take years of effort to wrest power from the hands of the undeserving. I may never see the kind of governance I think will work at scale, but if I can be part of making that become peopleās reality someday, then I will have done my part.
It sounds like youāre coming around to communalism, which is the kind of anarchy I like. Itās also the most viable path, imo, to see anarchy become a reality, because helping each other at a small scale was always the point for me.
Big governments donāt workāeven when theyāre goodābecause they are unable to effectively respond to the immediate needs of a growing and changing populace. They can catch many disabled people in a broad net, for example, and provide help, but the minute somebody doesnāt fit the mould, they fall through the cracks or get left behind entirely. A community, though? They know you, what you need, and they are already there with you to help.
I think itās good that youāre asking questions. Keep it up! Donāt be satisfied with āgood enough.ā
Yes, communalism! Iāve read about that, itās really resonated with me. I definitely want to learn more. Will have to pick up some more books.
Thanks for your response, itās very thoughtful provoking. Particularly the point about big governments and small vulnerable groups slipping through the cracks. Because I very much agree with that perspective.
I have a lot of learning to do, but Iām excited. Thanks again! āŗļø
Iām not an anarchist, but Iām friends with several from my mutual aid groupāmany of them, though not all, vote.
There are better options than others in every election. No sense making your goals more difficult when you have an option to not. Itās not an endorsement of the system, just one tool of many that can be used. Just donāt settle on only voting. Itās not āVote;ā itās āVote andā¦ā
Itās not āVote;ā itās āVote andā¦ā
Iād almost say itās āā¦ Yadda yadda yadda, and Voteā. Voting is quick, relatively easy, and largely insignificant. We blow it out of proportion, mostly so we can scream at equally impotent people voting for someone different.
But when you have a large engaged community of activists all working toward a desired outcome, that begins to look a lot like a voting base, too.
again like i have to say to everyone on this thread they are not just voting but actively a member and campaigning for an electoral party very different discussion.
You are not doing an anarchist action by voting and by actively being a member of the party no you arenāt an anarchist. Canāt believe this community; even worse than relutincly voting is actively participating and being a part of a bourgeois electoral party and i canāt believe people are defending this as if its some understandable action. You may believe you are ādoing goodā but no party politics isnāt something an anarchist does thatās basic.
Electorialism is irreverent to anarchism. Our time and effort can be better spent on building up parallel communities.
I vote every 4 years because itās a material choice of 10 minutes in line at the local school or a fine worth an hours work if I donāt. If someone wants to vote because they think it might do harm reduction, who cares? What matters is where theyāre spending their energy.
Way I see it, ditch the party campaigning, vote for them if you want - it wonāt make a difference, and focus on something more beneficial.
Yeah, youāre not an Anarchist, categorically. But I do appreciate that the choice right now is between āLetās kill all the minorities!ā and āLetās only kill a few minorities!ā so I donāt begrudge anyone who does vote.
Elections are something you can do once every few years to leverage the small amount of power that you can claim for yourself with no adverse consequences. Some might say that it legitimizes the state, but the government doesnāt collapse if voter turnout drops below a certain level.
Ultimately I see it as something you do for maybe one hour out of one day of the year, and the other 364 days of the year are for leveraging power in other ways. So the election should be an afterthought, a minor piece of context. If you find yourself campaigning, donating, investing a lot of your sense of self into national elections, that would not be so anarchistic. If the height of someoneās personal political power is based around voting for parliamentary elections, thay person is a liberal through definition by contrast.
Vote or donāt vote, but our aim is that whoever they vote for, we will be ungovernable.
okay but this person isnāt just voting theyāre actively campaigning for a capitalist party not that i would defend voting itself but this is different and worse.
āActively campaigningā is not the same thing as āfeel like itās still worth campaigningā.
I donāt really care about the purity of detaching yourself from statist hierarchies, because we are all tied into them to some degree or another. Iām interested in what actually works to bring about a more humane, free, egalitarian, and sustainable world. This is a big part of the reason I identify as āautonomous communistā instead of āanarchistā, even though these terms are conflatably close to each other.
I am gonna wait until you respond to a couple of folks here before I address the issues you havenāt been intervened are anarchist praxis, electoralism, and your personal values.
But like others read, Anarchism is a praxis, just like electoralism. Also, it would do us great to know which āGreen Partyā youāre talking about. Political parties label themselves anything but their praxis. If you campaign, tbbh, you are wasting your time.
@PurpleFanatic@quokk.au were you able to find what contradicted with your praxis of electoralism (maintaining the quo) and anarchist praxis š§µ?
