https://old.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/1qqxfx2/being_consistent_about_the_definition_of_working/

I have noticed that “working class” is often thrown around cynically by idpol-friendly sections of the left. For example, they might claim 90% of the population is working class in an appeal to class-first politics, but then say that conservatives - or whatever other ideological group they’re determined to render irredeemable - are petit bourgeoisie.

Kind of a motte and bailey argument, and doesn’t pass the smell test. It’s worse than the old liberal bit, “haha red state poors voting against their interests!” which was smug but at least acknowledged reality. People cross class lines in their political alignments and vote against their interests all the time. That’s pretty much the basis of electoral politics in America, sign up for one of two teams that agree they hate you.

I’ve heard these types claim earnestly that a tech worker on $180k is “working class,” while a self-employed skilled tradesperson making half that is not. They can dress it up as an economic distinction about ownership, but I think the real reason is political affiliation. Someone working in tech in a major city is likely to be more progressive on social issues, less likely to be “insensitive” than someone in the trades, or at least that’s the actual calculation being made.

What is a reasonable definition of working class that doesn’t fall prey to this kind of slippery ideological criteria? Is there a dollar cutoff? What about stonks for an exceedingly unlikely retirement?

Thanks for reading all that, if you did. This topic has been on my mind for over a year, and this is one of the few subs that wouldn’t insta-ban me for asking.

edit: I did in fact, conflate the US sociological definition of working class with the Marxist one. My humble apologies. I am working class in the latter sense, which is the one that matters here. Thanks for the thoughtful answers, especially regarding PMC, I was falling into that trap of resentment.

  • ɔiƚoxɘup@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    I like to be simple about it.

    Do you own enough property or assets that they provide for you? You’re not working class, you’re owner class.

    Self employed? Working class.

    Own a business and it pays all your expenses? Owner class.

    Are there gray areas and nuance? Sure. Life is replete with nuance. Exceptions to every generalization and all that.

    For me, the distinction lies in whether your work is necessary for your survival. Another distinction is who you’re beholden to.

    In this sense, the picker/packer at Amazon and the developer that makes 250k are in the same boat.

    Nuance is found in management and supervisory roles. Their function and alignment are with the ownership class, but still rely on pay to survive. They are in a sense half in and half out, but despite what they believe, they are still workers.

    The line is blurred further at the c-suite level and to the extent that there is a golden parachute of some sort, the line disappears.

    Nuance. You can’t expect hard and fast rules to function in a world that is made of continuums.

    I see gender similarly, it makes for a used comparison here. Do I have some ideal and concrete concept of masculinity and feminity? Sure, most people do. I also (like I believe a majority of people do) understand gender is a continuum, not a binary.

    So, do we work to the benefit of the management? Yes, they just don’t see it that way. To the benefit of the c-suite? Also yes in that their worldview is truly unsustainable. They would hate us for it because all they can see is quarterly gains.