Having spent a lot of time on Mastodonā€¦ There are tons of people there talking about federated and self-hosted services, software freedom, censorship, encryption, tech regulationā€¦ A very narrow range of topics directly surrounding the fediverse get a lot of attention.

But nobody talks about anything else. Nobody goes to Instagram to talk about Instagram, nobody goes to Tiktok to talk about Tiktok, nobody goes to Facebook (at all). People use social media to either talk to their friends or talk about their hobbies and interests.

And if your hobby is tech, thatā€™s fine, enjoy. I like tech too. But please, if you have anything else to say, say it. The fediverse will never appeal to the masses if we donā€™t embrace a wide variety of hobbies and interests.

We need people here talking about cooking. We need people here talking about fashion. We need people here talking about immigration policy. We need people here talking about everything people enjoy!

Yes, if you go to /m/fashion right now, itā€™sā€¦ barely there. Youā€™re not going to get a ton of conversation when you post there. But thatā€™s not the point. The point is to build out the community, so that, a year from now, as more and more people attempt to post and engage, there is a conversation. Thereā€™s a reason to be on the fediverse besides the meta circlejerk over how great the fediverse could be in theory.

This is the ā€œcontentā€ people are craving. Find or start a magazine for your city, or your town, or your country. Write a post. Share posts from your favorite blogs. Comment on something, if you have anything to say at all. Share a youtube videoā€”yes, a youtube video, I know, youtube sucks, but at least it gives us a path to a community here.

  • PCChipsM922U@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    That was true 13+ years ago, when most normies didnā€™t even have a FB account, let alone a reddit account. Back then reddit was mostly full of geeks, they know how to upload images on pix hosts, that was never a problem for them, and it isnā€™t now, thatā€™s why we use Lemmy, dispite of it lacking a lot of things that a social media platform in 2023 is most definitely supposed to have. But, we donā€™t care. Normies care. The donā€™t like having to switch 10 different apps to upload an image, to have to copy/paste comm URLs in search because your instance still doesnā€™t federate with the instance with the comm that youā€™d like to join, they donā€™t like not being able to follow users (Lemmy still doesnā€™t support that), they donā€™t like having 50 different apps that basically do the same thing (which, of course, itā€™s the whole point of joining an open source network, choice). They want consitency, which is the only thing that the fediverse will never have, and the whole point of even having a fediverse (you donā€™t like a policy on an instance? fine, move, no oneā€™s stopping you šŸ¤·). When you take away consitency from them, they feel overwhelmed and this thing is just too complicated, end of story.

    See, normies were never a part of forums, IRC, BBSes. Theyā€™re late internet adopters. They have no idea how things were, that different servers might have different rules, some require SSL, some donā€™t, others might wanā€™t you to register the uname with an email, etc. They will never get the defederated aspect of the fediverse. Itā€™s like speaking some alien language to them, it simply does not compute. Corporate centealized media is all they know.

    • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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      1 year ago

      They will never get the defederated aspect of the fediverse. Itā€™s like speaking some alien language to them, it simply does not compute.

      Itā€™s really not that hard to explain. Just tell them itā€™s like email, theyā€™ll get it.

      I swear, most techies think that non-techies are another species. Itā€™s not that hard to explain things, and not everybody is as incompetent as our mothers. Young people understand technology better than old people, not worse, not sure how that part has you confused.

      But yeah, being able to post photos directly without going to imgur is easier and more intuitive, Iā€™m glad it seems to be built into kbin without any issue.

      • PCChipsM922U@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Itā€™s really not that hard to explain. Just tell them itā€™s like email, theyā€™ll get it.

        Youā€™re talking about people that open up FB accounts with a phone numberā€¦ they donā€™t understand the concept of email.

        They donā€™t even understand the concept of phone numbers, they just know they dial and get the other person on the other end, thatā€™s it.

        I swear, most techies think that non-techies are another species. Itā€™s not that hard to explain things, and not everybody is as incompetent as our mothers. Young people understand technology better than old people, not worse, not sure how that part has you confuse.

        You sure about that? Cuz Iā€™ve had talks with young people that are considered techies amongst their friends, they know a lot less than what techies used to know at that age, which was dissapointing for me. For example, they know that Thor hides their real IP, they donā€™t know how though. They think itā€™s somehow magical and that it doesnā€™t need an IP.

        Though I have to admit that I have also met great ones amongst them. The trouble is, they are precious little to be found. And theyā€™re usually the weird kids, not even techies, just pure genious, future coders in most cases. So, no one actually notices them. Youā€™ll hear about them as the guy/gal that invented this or that algo that navigates this or that.

        • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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          1 year ago

          Youā€™re talking about people that open up FB accounts with a phone numberā€¦ they donā€™t understand the concept of email.

          No, Iā€™m not. My mom is afraid of computers, but she understands email just fine. Iā€™ve been able to explain federation to a lot of my non-techie friends. Youā€™re giving me some hypothetical caricature of a technophobe, but Iā€™m telling you, Iā€™ve done it, Iā€™ve explained it to people, itā€™s not that hard, you just hate people too much to give them a chance.

          You sure about that? Cuz Iā€™ve had talks with young people that are considered techies amongst their friends, they know a lot less than what techies used to know at that age, which was dissapointing for me. For example, they know that Thor hides their real IP, they donā€™t know how though. They think itā€™s somehow magical and that it doesnā€™t need an IP.

          I assume youā€™re talking about TOR, and not Thor. I consider myself a techie, Iā€™m a patent attorney with a degree in computer science. Iā€™ve read about how TOR works a few times, and probably once new whatever it is youā€™re getting at, but I couldnā€™t tell you how the fuck TOR works now. And I couldnā€™t care less. And I donā€™t need to understand it to sign up for the fediverse or upload a photo to kbin or upload a photo to imgur.

          You donā€™t need to be a software engineer with experience in every field of technology to click a link, sign up for an account, and leave a comment. My mom could do it (if she wanted to, although sheā€™s probably get angry at me if I suggested it and talked to her about it for more than 20 seconds).

          Youā€™re just being an elitist misanthrope here. This has nothing to do with the issues facing the fediverse.

          • PCChipsM922U@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            My mom is afraid of computers, but she understands email just fine.

            Really? Then please come over here and try to explain the same to my mom. Cuz Iā€™ve tried it a million times, she doesnā€™t understand the concept and she doesnā€™t like to understand at this point, all she knows is, it works, like a phone number, it just works. She doesnā€™t understand why calling her brother abroad without the countryā€™s calling code doesnā€™t work, I had to type the number in her phone with the countryā€™s code because she didnā€™t think that was important and just left the code outā€¦ cell operators were also a PITA to explain to her, and I donā€™t think she got that either, cuz she still asks me what the first 3 numbers in front of the cell are and sometimes I give her bogus codes just to see if sheā€™ll go ā€œdonā€™t screw with meā€, but she writes them down and never asks me why is this code different from all of the rest that are in use hereā€¦ not ever.

            So please, donā€™t tell me everyone understands email, cuz they donā€™t. Iā€™ll bet you whatever you want that, if you do a street questionare and ask people to explain the concept of email as plainly as possible, over 70% with either get it completely wrong or just shrug and tell they have no idea how it works.

            I assume youā€™re talking about TOR, and not Thor. I consider myself a techie, Iā€™m a patent attorney with a degree in computer science. Iā€™ve read about how TOR works a few times, and probably once new whatever it is youā€™re getting at, but I couldnā€™t tell you how the fuck TOR works now. And I couldnā€™t care less. And I donā€™t need to understand it to sign up for the fediverse or upload a photo to kbin or upload a photo to imgur.

            Yeah, Tor, sorry. Had a nick on a game, Thorazine, everyone called me Thor there, so now it just slips sometimes.

            You donā€™t need to understand any of that, apparently you have a logic streak in you since you have degree in computer science. One, not everyone has that gift, two, even if they did, they might not have developed it, and three, you went to uni. Please tell me the world statistic (percentage) of people that actually went and graduated. I havenā€™t seen the statistic either, but I bet itā€™s no more than 15% on a global scale, which about sums my estimate of over 80% of the population not being able to understand simple things (yes, they are simple IMO) like email or federation. Itā€™s not that itā€™s complicated, itā€™s the attention span problem. Uni teaches to have long studying session, weeks, months at a time. People that never did that, they just canā€™t force their brain to concentrate on one single thing for more than 5 minutes at a time, especially not if theyā€™re not getting paid for it and none of their friends use that thing that youā€™re trying to explain. The very concept of freedom and having the choice to do things your way or how youā€™d like to be run, escapes them. They just donā€™t care. They use whatever their friends, coworkers, family use. Why? Cuz why not. Everyone else uses it, itā€™s simple, you just type in your phone, reset you password (cuz none of them actually remember it, theyā€™re not used to remembering stuff) and off you go to using that app on your new device.

            You donā€™t need to be a software engineer with experience in every field of technology to click a link, sign up for an account, and leave a comment. My mom could do it (if she wanted to, although sheā€™s probably get angry at me if I suggested it and talked to her about it for more than 20 seconds).

            You proved my point with the last sentence in brackets. People usually donā€™t care about techie stuff. Techies do, they love it, but regular peopleā€¦ no. Why would I bother explaining something like the fediverse or email to anyone that doesnā€™t even wanna hear about that. Has anyone ever asked you (out of the blue) ā€œhey man, you know how that mastodon thing works?ā€. Noā€¦ and no one ever willā€¦ not unless you start explaining first. No one cares dude, because theyā€™re perfectly OK not knowing about that and just living their lives with coproeate social media. Itā€™s a means to and end for them, they donā€™t actually care about freedom, they donā€™t even understand why this is free and the other one isnā€™t, lol šŸ˜‚, theyā€™re both free to them, except this one is a hell of a lot more complicated for signing up. ā€œNow I gotta chech my email for a confirmation link, great šŸ˜’ā€¦ shit, canā€™t remember my password šŸ¤¦ā€¦ aaah, fuck this shit.ā€ See how easy it is for normies to give up. Make the sign up process with a phone number and sign ups will skyrocket, I guarantee you that. Butā€¦ wait, thatā€™s info that I would rather not share with a social network. Yes, for people like you and me, yes, for normies, itā€™s just easier šŸ¤·.

            Youā€™re just being an elitist misanthrope here. This has nothing to do with the issues facing the fediverse.

            Iā€™m just realā€¦ at least thatā€™s how I see myself.

            • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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              1 year ago

              She doesnā€™t understand why calling her brother abroad without the countryā€™s calling code doesnā€™t work, I had to type the number in her phone with the countryā€™s code because she didnā€™t think that was important and just left the code outā€¦ cell operators were also a PITA to explain to her, and I donā€™t think she got that either, cuz she still asks me what the first 3 numbers in front of the cell are and sometimes I give her bogus codes just to see if sheā€™ll go ā€œdonā€™t screw with meā€, but she writes them down and never asks me why is this code different from all of the rest that are in use hereā€¦ not ever.

              I have no idea what youā€™re talking about. Why wouldnā€™t you just give her a number and tell her thatā€™s the number? Fuck that, why donā€™t you just send her a contact and tell her ā€œclick on Bob and itā€™ll call bob! Or tell it to call Bob and itā€™ll call Bob!ā€ Why the fuck would you ever bother to explain country codes to her? Nobody needs to know about country codes, youā€™re inventing this problem.

              Iā€™m getting the impression that when you say you donā€™t understand email, youā€™re talking about how people donā€™t know how email routing works, donā€™t understand pop vs imap, donā€™t understand why the sender field is sometimes not accurate. Thatā€™s not what Iā€™m talking about, because it doesnā€™t fucking matter. Everybody knows everything they actually have any reason to know about email. If I asked a hundred people on the street how to send an email, or check their email, one hundred of them would be able to describe the process successfully. Youā€™re just looking for excuses to call them stupid to make yourself feel smarter.

              Please tell me the world statistic (percentage) of people that actually went and graduated. I havenā€™t seen the statistic either, but I bet itā€™s no more than 15% on a global scale, which about sums my estimate of over 80% of the population not being able to understand simple things (yes, they are simple IMO) like email or federation.

              Well, obviously college isnā€™t the only sign of intelligence, obviously you donā€™t need a college degree to operate imgur, or upload a photo to kbin, obviously children donā€™t have college degrees, and obviously different nations and cultures have different systems and norms around education, but:

              https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cac/intl-ed-attainment

              So 40%, as of 2021, in OECD countries. Is that good enough for you, asshole?

              Also, fun fact, 4.37 billion people use email: https://techjury.net/blog/how-many-email-accounts-are-there/. (yeah, that article is written weirdly).

              They use whatever their friends, coworkers, family use. Why?

              How fucking stupid are you? Itā€™s literally called social media. Youā€™re confused about why people would rather see what their nieces and nephews are up to than listen to some stranger rant about how stupid everybody, everywhere is?

              reset you password (cuz none of them actually remember it, theyā€™re not used to remembering stuff)

              you should not be remembering your passwords. You know youā€™re not supposed to remember your passwords, right? I have hundreds of unique, complex, randomized passwords, I donā€™t remember them. I know a lot of normies who are smart enough to not remember their passwords, Apple and Google are both making it easy. Why are you remembering your passwords? Are you part of that 80%?

              People usually donā€™t care about techie stuff.

              They shouldnā€™t need to. Most people donā€™t know how IG works and enjoy it just fine. The reason people donā€™t enjoy the fediverse is not that itā€™s too complicated, itā€™s that itā€™s not enjoyable enough. If people ask me what the deal is, I explain it, but if they ask me why they should join, I can only talk about theory and potential, because thereā€™s nothing worth doing here, itā€™s all potential. It needs to be an enjoyable place with people who donā€™t call them idiots and with people who are talking about things they want to talk about.

              You donā€™t need to roll your own server on the fediverse. You donā€™t need to compile your own app from source. You donā€™t need to set up your own image server to share images from. You just need to come here and lurk, or vote, or comment, or post, or whatever, and have some fun.

              • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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                1 year ago

                except this one is a hell of a lot more complicated for signing up. ā€œNow I gotta chech my email for a confirmation link, great šŸ˜’ā€¦ shit, canā€™t remember my password šŸ¤¦ā€¦ aaah, fuck this shit.ā€ See how easy it is for normies to give up. Make the sign up process with a phone number and sign ups will skyrocket, I guarantee you that. Butā€¦ wait, thatā€™s info that I would rather not share with a social network. Yes, for people like you and me, yes, for normies, itā€™s just easier šŸ¤·.

                I have no idea what youā€™re talking about. Plenty of services offer both options because they might as well. Yeah, SMS is less secure. Who cares? This is not a bank account, nobodyā€™s account is gonna get hacked. And email really isnā€™t secure in the first place. But also, there are plenty of services that only offer email signup, and plenty of people use them, and Iā€™ve never really heard of anybody having an issue signing up with email, my mom manages, my sisters manage, my technophobic cousins manage.

                But they would never come to the fediverse in the first place, because the fediverse never really had a selling point that mattered to any of them. They want to see their friends, and their friends donā€™t use it, or see their hobbies, and nobody talks about their hobbies, or see anything that they could possibly care about, and thereā€™s none of that here. If I paid people to check it out, they wouldnā€™t stay. I know plenty of people who signed up for accounts and never posted because thereā€™s nothing to talk about, nobody to engage with.

                • PCChipsM922U@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  Plenty of services offer both options because they might as well.

                  The fediverse will never offer phone numbers as a regustartion option. Why? One, itā€™s invasion of privacy (something the fediverse is strictly against), and two, itā€™s a service that costs money, while email is free.

                  And email really isnā€™t secure in the first place.

                  Nobody said it is, it can easily be spoofed. In fact, phone number registration/sign in is far more reliableā€¦ but that is invasion of privacy.

                  But also, there are plenty of services that only offer email signup, and plenty of people use them, and Iā€™ve never really heard of anybody having an issue signing up with email, my mom manages, my sisters manage, my technophobic cousins manage.

                  Yes, if the services offer ā€œsign in with Google/FB/Twitterā€, yes, most people will use that. Ask them if they usually use the last ā€œsign in with emailā€ option and you have your answerā€¦ because the other methods I mentioned requires just one click/tap, but not the email option.

                  But they would never come to the fediverse in the first place, because the fediverse never really had a selling point that mattered to any of them.

                  Itā€™s best that they donā€™t in that case.

                  They want to see their friends, and their friends donā€™t use it, or see their hobbies, and nobody talks about their hobbies, or see anything that they could possibly care about, and thereā€™s none of that here.

                  Great, itā€™s not for them šŸ¤·. Agree to disagree and move on šŸ¤·.

                  I know plenty of people who signed up for accounts and never posted because thereā€™s nothing to talk about, nobody to engage with.

                  I beg to differ. There are plenty of subjects that appeal to my interests. Itā€™s just that there are non for most non-tech oriented people. And thatā€™s fine, they have the rest of the social medias for that. Hey, I got a few subs on reddit that will never move here and all of them are tech related. And thatā€™s fine as well, Iā€™ll just visit them from time to time on reddit, donā€™t get what the big deal is šŸ¤·.

                  • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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                    1 year ago

                    The fediverse will never offer phone numbers as a regustartion option. Why? One, itā€™s invasion of privacy (something the fediverse is strictly against), and two, itā€™s a service that costs money, while email is free.

                    Do you know what an option is? Are you confused about how options work? How is it an invasion of privacy to let me choose between the thing weā€™re already able to do and a new thing that some other people might choose if they want to?

                    Yes, if the services offer ā€œsign in with Google/FB/Twitterā€, yes, most people will use that. Ask them if they usually use the last ā€œsign in with emailā€ option and you have your answerā€¦ because the other methods I mentioned requires just one click/tap, but not the email option.

                    No, Iā€™m talking about services that only offer email signup. Actually, there is also eBay, which I guess offers a facebook sign in option, but my mom and sister both signed up by email, they found it easier, because they both occasionally use one of the same computers, and they didnā€™t want to log in and out of facebook to switch ebay accounts.

                    Itā€™s best that they donā€™t in that case.

                    Itā€™s best that you stop sucking your own dick about how fucking high your consciousness is and how much better you are than everybody else.

                    I beg to differ. There are plenty of subjects that appeal to my interests.

                    Okay, are you going to disagree with my point?

                    I still know plenty of people who signed up for accounts and never posted because thereā€™s nothing to talk about, nobody to engage with.

                    You found people here talking about what you like talking about. Why shouldnā€™t anybody else have that?