Used to think monogamy was very common in birds, but IRC thanks to DNA testing, we now know plenty of baby birds have a different daddy. Ie. they raise the baby together, but they have an open relationship and impregnate/get impregnated by other birds.
Less that they “have an open relationship” and more that the birds sneak around behind each-other’s backs. Males go off and try to sneakily impregnate other females, females sneak around and try to get impregnated by other males. You find it in apes too.
Isn’t this anthropomorphizing, though? Is there evidence that the mates would experience emotional distress if they learned their partners were “cheating” on them?
Being in a consensually monogamous relationship, I know I would and my husband would, but how much of that is cultural? I’m not really convinced it’s something that’s ubiquitous in the animal kingdom, though if you have a source about this that discredits my (admittedly amateurish) hypothesis, I’d be open to learning more.
Sure, but saying “have an open relationship” is also anthropomorphizing. Also, sneaking around describes what happens much better. I don’t know what it looks like with birds, but with apes when a non-dominant male mates with a female, they have to sneak around to do it. If the dominant male catches the non-dominant male he’ll attack him.
Sure and you can have landownership without paperwork. Pretty confident if you went on a guys farm plot 10k years ago he would make it clear who owned it.
I’d be curious about this claim. There’s pair bonding in other species, and other species that are (mostly) monogamous, but an explicit formal declaration of a monogamous pairing is something that doesn’t happen until you have some kind of culture and by the time we have any kinds of surviving records (even mostly coherent oral traditions) of anything religion already has it claws in a lot of things.
Religious BS, probably. Marriage is religious in origin.
Not religious in origin, but the people who propose using it as exclusions to laws think so.
Nah pair mating happens in other species. Religion just got its claws into it at some point.
Meh. True monogamy is quite rare in mammals.
Used to think monogamy was very common in birds, but IRC thanks to DNA testing, we now know plenty of baby birds have a different daddy. Ie. they raise the baby together, but they have an open relationship and impregnate/get impregnated by other birds.
Apparently that’s surprisingly rare in humans.
Less that they “have an open relationship” and more that the birds sneak around behind each-other’s backs. Males go off and try to sneakily impregnate other females, females sneak around and try to get impregnated by other males. You find it in apes too.
Isn’t this anthropomorphizing, though? Is there evidence that the mates would experience emotional distress if they learned their partners were “cheating” on them?
Being in a consensually monogamous relationship, I know I would and my husband would, but how much of that is cultural? I’m not really convinced it’s something that’s ubiquitous in the animal kingdom, though if you have a source about this that discredits my (admittedly amateurish) hypothesis, I’d be open to learning more.
Sure, but saying “have an open relationship” is also anthropomorphizing. Also, sneaking around describes what happens much better. I don’t know what it looks like with birds, but with apes when a non-dominant male mates with a female, they have to sneak around to do it. If the dominant male catches the non-dominant male he’ll attack him.
Here’s an example from monkeys:
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/monkeys-try-to-hide-illicit-hookups
I haven’t found articles about chimps and gorillas, but I remember it being similar.
Huh today I learned something interesting! Thanks for the link.
Marriage and monogamous pairs are different though. You can have one without the other.
Sure and you can have landownership without paperwork. Pretty confident if you went on a guys farm plot 10k years ago he would make it clear who owned it.
Birds ain’t getting married my dude
No it isn’t. Religion usurped it and claim they invented it but it’s older than that
How much older? And were the origins devoid of religious influence?
I’d be curious about this claim. There’s pair bonding in other species, and other species that are (mostly) monogamous, but an explicit formal declaration of a monogamous pairing is something that doesn’t happen until you have some kind of culture and by the time we have any kinds of surviving records (even mostly coherent oral traditions) of anything religion already has it claws in a lot of things.