• GreatCornolio@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    1 - it’s still stopping the existence of an organism and preventing a human life from happening after it already started to happen. Call it not killing something, but we’re basically arguing semantics. I’m pro choice, but I mean, own what you are doing. It’s not exactly preventative it’s reactive.

    2 - idk and idc who this hitman guy is, I meant your usual death row guy who viscously killed/etc multiple people in a horrifying way. Someone an overwhelming majority of people would have no problem with being killed. Someone who has demonstrated we permanently need out of society and has spread suffering. I’m anti death penalty, but not because there’s any love lost with those people - only because we convict and kill the wrong people sometimes.

    • fine_sandy_bottom
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      10 months ago

      we’re basically arguing semantics

      Well yes, but you referred to terminating a pregnancy as “killing a blank slate”. The use of the term “killing” has obvious emotional connotations which you were co-opting to support your position. If you’re going to do that then you need to be prepared to defend the appropriateness of that particular verb.

      I meant your usual death row guy who viscously killed/etc multiple people in a horrifying way. Someone an overwhelming majority of people would have no problem with being killed.

      You’re assuming that people generally support killing repugnant criminals, which is not the case. There are some truly awful people in the world, and they may well “deserve” to die, but I do not wish them dead. I think you may find that this is a fairly commonly held position in contemporary society.

      • GreatCornolio@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Yea, once someone rapes a child and tortures 3 people for hours before burning down a house, I’m philosophically fine with killing them. I didn’t think that part was too much of a hot take.

        Fair enough about you perceiving a connotation about the verbage, but also, it’s killing something lol. If what I just did to this ant in my kitchen was killing it, then it’s what’s happening to that fetus.

        • fine_sandy_bottom
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          10 months ago

          You said “a guy everyone wants dead” which is obviously never going to be true.

          I’m sure this sounds odd to you, but in contemporary society it kind of is a hot take to want someone dead.

    • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      it’s still stopping the existence of an organism and preventing a human life from happening after it already started to happen.

      That part I highlighted is a subject of debate, and since it hinges on opinions about the definitions of words rather than anything with a clear-cut objective measure it’s a debate that’s not going to be settled any time soon.

      I meant your usual death row guy who viscously killed/etc multiple people in a horrifying way

      What a good thing that the state never, ever incorrectly convicts people of having done those things.

      • GreatCornolio@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        When the cells form together and start developing, a human life has begun to form. If it’s “alive” you can argue about and whatever. But you can’t debate that first sentence any more than you can debate that once you put a pot of water on a hi burner, you’ve started to boil some water. Have some fucking balls and admit what you’re doing when you terminate a pregnancy. If I crack an egg I just killed a chicken. If I didn’t kill a chicken, by way of semantics, I still caused a chicken that would exist to not exist, what the hell are you supposed to call that?

        And the thing about the death penalty, I literally said that in my comment. I brought that up as the reason why I’m against it. So thanks for restating it more sarcastically.

        • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          If I didn’t kill a chicken, by way of semantics, I still caused a chicken that would exist to not exist, what the hell are you supposed to call that?

          What if two chickens are about to copulate, and I separate them before they get a chance to get it on? I just prevented a future chicken from existing, so did I just kill it?

          This is what I mean about this being a semantic debate. There’s no way to objectively measure the “chickenness” of something, especially not in the grey area that lies between disorganized atoms and a fully-formed hen. I don’t think an egg is literally a chicken, at least not early in the chicken fetus’ development. At some point it becomes one, but nailing down the exact moment is not something that’s amenable to rigorous definition. We’re never going to have a scanner that we can train on a developing egg and have it go “ping!” The moment the chicken threshold has been passed.

        • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          Have some fucking balls

          Not if I can help it.

          and admit what you’re doing when you terminate a pregnancy.

          Terminating. A pregnancy. Stopping the process that until it completes has not resulted in a human life.

          Cold water is not boiling water until it’s boiling water.

          A fetus has no more rights to occupy a uterus than a sperm cell has not to be ejaculated into a sock, regardless what it could potentially have been were it allowed to’ve been part of a cream pie.

    • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      preventing a human life from happening

      So is jerking off into a tissue

      after it already started to happen.

      and would need a human host to continue happening to which it (not being a person and not having rights) has no rights to which would superseded said human’s right to bodily autonomy.

      only because we convict and kill the wrong people sometimes.

      You shouldn’t kill “the right people” either. Killing captive people is wrong.