It’s a situation that I have been expecting for a while, but I wasn’t fully ready to accept it. Specifically it’s one of my LGBTQ friends who honestly believes in the democrats will protect them and their partner. I have tried to make the point that both parties are eroding any sort of civility towards all marginalized groups, but fear seems to drive them more than logical observations. They make the excuse that change doesn’t happen over night and that the left continues to grow and will have meaningful affects down the road. I fundamentally just don’t agree with that idea and vocalize it regularly. More and more it is ending up in a circular argument where I am painted as unrealistic and my rhetoric (leftist rhetoric) is doing more harm than good because it promotes distrust in the only system we have to work with. I try to tell them it’s kind of the whole point. We gotta start somewhere if we want to see a better, more representative system, but they are so hung up on the immediate future while simultaneously saying that my idealistic feelings are shortsighted and I cant expect change in the immediate future… The double-talk is wild, I know.
I am trying my hardest to stop from engaging at this point because on the most basic level we agree on a lot of stuff, but they are just way to wrapped up in the fear mongering of the democratic party. They know that the two party system is broken, they know that something drastic needs to change, but they also think that they are powerless to do anything except choose the lesser evil. It pains me because I am watching them do the same shit past generations have done, where they give up on their ideals for the sake of preserving the current status quo that they benefit from. I am legitimately watching them imply “fuck you, got mine” under the guise of civic duty and I hate it. I want nothing more than to be able to finally say “I told you so” without being a smug asshole about it and ruining our friendship.
Thanks for reading my rant. It’s probably a bit disjointed, but the frustration is boiling over and I needed to vent to the only group of people that seems to understand the hopelessness of being a disenfranchised leftist.
I am proably gonna get banned for writing this, but be fucking realistic. I know it isn’t perfect, I know other parties exist, and I know the system is corrupt, but man up and deal with it.
The election is near, Trump has a very high chance of winning, and the whole country is on the tipping point of becoming a fascist regime.
Can you please use your brain and think for even just a little bit? Kamala isn’t perfect, but in the meantime it’s gonna hold together the country, and then you have 4 years to organize and vote for a better party, but in the meanwhile, voting anyone who isn’t kamala is voting for Trump.
Go on with the downvotes, I don’t care
Kamala is happily enabling a genocide and wants the American armed forces to be “the most lethal” in the world.
I heard this before 2012. And before 2016. And before 2020. I no longer buy the argument.
We here at hexbear can’t downvote. You probably will get/have gotten some downvotes, but they haven’t been from hexbear.
You failed to organize. The 4 years were given to you, and you (as in the commies living in the US) failed. Time to practice harm reduction and avoid Trump. I’m not from the US nor do I live there, so there’s not much I can do.
And Trump wants to do both that AND a genocide inside the country towards LGBTQ people, women, and black/Hispanic people in general.
Which do you prefer?
EDIT: just now, browsing Lemmy, I came across this article to further prove my point https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/oct/17/trump-wins-elections-outcomes-stakes
And that’s my bad for not knowing it. Sorry.
If it’s because of the implied gender, I’m also sorry and should have chosen a better expression. If it’s for the meaning, think again. Not everything is perfect in life and sometimes you need to make compromises. Learn now before it’s too late
I’m sick of arguing with people about electoral politics, so let me just ignore most of your response and address only the end, because maybe I can make a positive difference to your worldview there.
The issue with the phrase “man up” is not only that it implies your interlocutor is a certain gender. That’s a bit of an issue, sure, because assuming men are the default humans is pretty misogynist. However, the real misogyny of the phrase is much more insidious than just assuming everyone is a man. What the phrase “man up” does is inextricably tie strength of character to manhood and masculinity. And that’s misogynist tripe. Womanhood and femininity have as much strength inherent in them as manhood and masculinity. Men are not morally stronger than women, so exhorting someone to moral strength by telling them to be more like a man is full on misogyny. Yes, it’s the type that’s so normalized in our culture that you can be forgiven for not seeing it, especially if you yourself are a man (which you may or may not be, I don’t know). But please, excise the phrase “man up” from your vocabulary.
Completely agree on that one. I always try to not imply anything, but being a white man, sometimes things slip thru. Sorry.
Hey, I’m sorry, but I need to hammer this in, because brainworms burrow deep and I’d like to make sure you understand yours. The issue isn’t simply that you implied something you didn’t mean to imply, that’s true so far as it goes, but the more important part is what you implied. That’s the problem. If you take away from this experience “I need to write more carefully on the internet so people don’t read anything into what I’ve written” that’s an ok lesson, but it isn’t the one I’m hopeful you’ll learn. My hope is that you’ll come away with something more like “wow, I seem to have some internal feeling that men are morally stronger than women, I wonder where that came from and how I can go about unlearning this feeling.”
I want you to deprogram the underlying misogyny, not just learn to disguise it better, you know? Still, thanks for admitting fault, that’s hard to do on the internet.
Have you considered that Kamala’s worthless neo liberal economic policy, racist border policy, and hawkish right wing foreign policy will ensure fascism? A vote for for Kamala is a vote for 4 years of stagnant decline and imperial embarrassment that brought about trump in the first place, ripe for a competent fascist to step in
Libs consider this bravery
Racist border policy?
By voting third party you’re helping the man who built a fucking wall next to Mexico, and you are also helping him deregulate every single industry that’s willing to give him money, creating an economic policy that’s far worse then you could ever imagine. Your vote for a third party isn’t showing any support to anyone whatsoever right now, it’s just helping Trump.
By supporting Dems you’re helping the party that literally helped build a fucking wall next to Mexico, proposed hundreds of millions for expanding it, deregulate every single industry that’s willing to give them money, oversaw the destruction of Roe v Wade, and countless billions on funding genocide and overseas war. The Democrats are trying to create a whole new border agency dedicated to ripping people out of their homes, just to prove how hard they are on immigration. Your support for Dems isn’t showing any support to anyone whatsoever right now, it’s just helping genocide and oppression.
I’m not voting 3rd party I’m voting for Hillary, she’s a Democrat
A vote for Kamala in 2024 is a vote for the competent fascist to rise in 2028
People have been making your argument for decades. Every single fucking election it’s widely claimed we’re on the “tipping point”, people everywhere said it last time with Trump, and what did he do when he got into power? Largely just continued the status quo of making everything gradually worse.
If anyone thinks voting remotely matters and they want change, they should vote third party. But as always, I don’t think voting will change anything no matter what.
Take half the fucking effort you put into this “Vote for genociders or get fascism” shit and put it into organising or direct action.
people constantly claim we’re on the tipping point because we are. Project 2025 has planned out every single step to ruin the country for everyone but the 1%, and if Trump can’t make it, someone else will. Last time Trump was unorganized and still caused massive chaos (Jan 6? Mexico wall anyone?). Republicans need to only win once to turn everything for the worse, and you are literally helping them. You had 4 years to get people to vote third party, and you failed. Now is time for harm reduction. Vote blue, especially if you’re in one of the swing states, and help everyone out like a true commie.
I don’t live in the US, it was your (as in the commie people living there) job to organize, I just care about people’s well-being in general and recognize Trump’s distopian hellscape.
Kamala isn’t perfect, nobody is, not even you, but it’s currently the best chance America has.
Trump did bad things. So have the Dems. And sincerely describing someone who actively supports genocide as “not perfect” just shows what a disingenuous lib you are. Your version of “harm reduction” has, for decades, done nothing but emphasize and prolong the harm.
I don’t live in the US either. I just care about people’s wellbeing in general. You should recognise that literally wherever on the planet you live, that organising and doing direct action would be more productive than telling people anywhere that voting matters. What a fucking waste of political energy.
I’m happy where my country stands at, thanks.
Right, so let’s elect the guy who will do imminent and immediate harm, and a lot more of it, because that’s better obviously
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/oct/17/trump-wins-elections-outcomes-stakes
I am a realist. The genocide, at least for now, won’t stop, but we have the power to not make it worse. What do you chose?
Eat shit
Suuuure
nice counter arguments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Why would I, a red fascist hate this?
because Trump is leading it, and last time I checked, industry deregulation and even more privatization of the public sector wasn’t something the communist values stood for