- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
I really tried to enjoy myself. God, I tried so hard. I attempted to find nuggets of joy within its hamfisted dialogue, one-note companions and the flashy but soulless fights. But I just couldn’t do it. Every time there was a glimmer of hope, it was dashed against the rocks of infinite disappointment.
Honestly, I’m amazed I finished it. There was certainly a point where I was starting to feel like I’d rather do anything else than listen to a hot Grey Warden talk about his big dumb bird for the hundredth time, or play therapist to a giant dragon slayer who just wants to moan about how their mum doesn’t understand them. These should have been great characters. A veteran knight reclaiming his order’s lost legacy, a proud warrior wrestling with their cultural and gender identity—there’s so much good stuff to mine here. But nope, they’re just plain boring. All of them.
I’m beating a dead horse, I know. I’ve already said my piece. But it’s just a real shame. When I got to the final cutscene that teased what we can expect from the next Dragon Age, it really sealed the deal. I’m out. BioWare just isn’t telling stories I care about anymore. Instead of moping around, I’m moving on. BioWare had an exceptional run, but that developer is long gone. What’s left is just an EA studio that makes middling games I’m not really interested in.
Did they? Mass Effect and Dragon Age began under EA, which a lot of people would argue are pretty good.
Also, what does EA do, that’s so bad? As far as I know, they’re really hands-off, so they don’t really meddle in the development, like what we’ve heard from Bobby Kotick.
Before EA, Bioware’s RPGs had some personality and took risks trying new shit. Since Mass Effect, they’ve been especially formulaic, toned down, and sanitized for a larger audience.
EA makes good looking, (usually) well polished games meant to appeal to as wide of an audience as possible, and when you have spent years playing games with a distinct style you can very easily see this shift once EA acquires a studio. Either you’re never going to see those games again, or they will become the most watered-down, generic version of the studio’s greatest IPs.
The one thing I can recall where it was known that EA had little to no involvement in development of one of their own games was when DICE made the first Mirror’s Edge. It was merely a AA game and the execs didn’t think much about it one way or the other during development; and then it became a huge hit so they started getting involved with the sequel. Which was shit.
Like I said, what does EA do exactly in these cases? People from Bioware themselves said that EA doesn’t interfere with them, and they’re making their own choices:
https://youtu.be/K9Z-nCv7XsI?t=2885
I highly doubt that, since Catalyst came out eight years after the first one. If EA was just chasing the money, why wait so long.
Are you familiar with the US foreign policy proposed by Theodore Roosevelt? “speak softly and carry a big stick”
EA may speak softly, but they carry a big stick. Bioware has clearly catered to EA, intentional or not, and their games have suffered from it.
Mirrors Edge was not a success either, btw.
It took them 5 years to reach their initial projected sales, and that’s after combining every available edition. That’s a commercial failure.
They did still chase it with followup games, btw.
Catalyst was going to be included, as it was shown at E3 in 2013 and 2014. And delay, delay, delay, all the way into 2016. Catalyst was quite literally EA chasing the money, because Mirrors Edge has only really gotten recognition long after its release – in terms of sales, and it’s availability on Steam really helped solidify it’s presence as a cult classic. The game of course was received well, it just didn’t sell (not much marketing and it’s not a game of the era, so to say, it is not an action heavy shooter game). So now after 8 years of letting this IP rot in development hell they said oh we can add some MTX and make another one, hm, let’s make it open world that’s what gamers like these days. It was actually decided in 2015 that it would be open world, since that wasn’t seen in any of the 2014 promotional. So 1 short year, since June 2016 is the games release.
Nah, I enjoyed parts of Catalyst but it’s a shell of its original. Dying Light and Ghostrunner are almost closer spiritual successors in regards to expanding on mechanics. The gameplay was the same but without any actual dynamics (gunplay wasn’t great in ME but it breaks up and gives variety), the writing was predictable and just really not that great, and that leaves new additions… Which you just avoid because it’s an open world and you only have running tools at your disposal. The mechanics of the game are horrible as well, inputs get dropped all the time it’s a huge problem. There’s just so little about the game that’s designed well, which is insane, because the game still accomplishes scratching the itch of Mirrors Edge, just very poorly.
No, what made Mirrors Edge great was the passion. It was a tight knitted and mechanically rewarding. These levels so carefully designed. Catalyst’s paths do not have the same care, they are just rushed together and it shows during the gameplay and how one path flows and the others are just ways you can go. There’s no depth and attention.
The developers freedom to pursue that passion was the very same thing that allowed Bioware to create the games they wanted to make (and like Bad Company 2’s story with DICE before dropping it entirely for multiplayer only).
BF3 may be a fine game, and 4, but you surely understand that they are copy pasted formulas that explicitly are not impassioned. What made Bad Company beloved was its improvements over the previous iteration along with its differentiation from MW2, on top of having a fair single player story. What made Mirrors Edge beloved was its direction and its gameplay. For both of these, these IP’s to EA became no more than how many zeroes they can generate. It’s a pattern with EA, from Mass Effect to Need for Speed to sports games to Battlefield. Once you have a formula you wait for it to be profitable to sell it again.
Mirrors Edge was received well but sold poorly. They tried to profit on some spinoffs, failed, 4 years later sort of began development and turned Catalyst into another open world microtransaction game without any of the heart that made Mirrors Edge work. Battlefield was mediocrely received until it did something better than CoD, then they focused on repeating that over and over, leading to BF3 and 4 and 2042, with the only “unique” Battlefield even available now being Battlefield One. Before Battlefield, it was Medal of Honor.
EA is a plight. I don’t know how you can say it’s not that bad and shift blame to the developers, that their games are their decisions. It’s just unequivocally untrue. Of course Bioware doesn’t have execs breathing down their necks, the execs are selling the game Bioware pitches to them - Mass Effect now with MTX. In that interview they literally even say, “EA wants to buy a company to do something well, if they ruin Bioware then they won’t get money. We make the games we want to make. They give input absolutely but we make our game.” Oh, and he mentions games, Shadow Realms, which never even came out because it was cancelled in 2015. And this is a video from 2013, so it may not have even been 2 years before this video with the timestamp you like is literally proving the point of the person asking the question (Q: Will Bioware be affected by EA’s acquisition; A: No, Bioware makes the games we want to make, EA wants money, EA gives input, Bioware makes the games we want to make) 2 years later, EA: Yeah, you can’t make that.
All that aside, I’m not really sure what the point of the video is supposed to prove… These people don’t even work there anymore if I remember right (head Bioware all jumped ship, no? I may be misremembering)? EA has the big stick. If you devs don’t follow them, you won’t be a dev at EA anymore. The devs at EA are inherently trapped because you cannot expect your game to be made unless it is within the expectations of the publisher, and thus you see the problem. When you pitch to EA, your creative work is already compromised. You think Bioware made the game they wanted to make with Andromeda? Anthem? Psh, Shadow Realms?
EA bought Bioware in 2007/8. EA killed Bioware in under 10 years and is now playing with its corpse. Literally 5 years after the acquisition is this video, the game of which he’s referencing 2 years later is cancelled and 2 more after that Andromeda releases. I really, really think you have mischaracterized EA and their relationship with their studios. EA is very hands off, yes. But they speak softly to you. And they carry a big stick.
You, too, would compromise your passion when working for this studio. It is actually impossible not to, by design.
I lived near EA’s SF studio for many years, that’s really honestly the main reason I even bothered to reply with something this lengthy. I know many former devs part of studios both made with and acquired by EA. It’s insane, they would be a great company to work for in so many ways. But their business practices ruin all of that. The last 20 years of EA being awful are true, just because you can point to BF2BC and say how could they be bad, you can also point to Madden Fifa and SWBF2. EA perfected this practice of seeping out the creatives from the studios long, long before Bioware was bought out.
You are pretty much just rambling, so I don’t really know what you want to say sometimes.
I never said EA was good, I only ever doubted how EA supposedly just kills their game studios. From all the evidence I’ve seen, they are pretty hands-off with studios like Bioware or DICE, so a lot falls on the devs themselves, if the games are subpar.
You mentioned Anthem, like if that was the game Bioware wanted. No it wasn’t, because apparently the most fun part of the game, the flying, was a suggestion from an EA exec.
Then for Mass Effect Andromeda, EA offered to delay the game again, before it’s release, but Bioware didn’t want to. Why? Must have been EAs big stick. That game also doesn’t have MTX
How is EA chasing money with Mirrors Edge, if they make a sequel, when it took years to barely make money? I’d say that’s the exact opposite. The game also has no MTX.
The point of the video I linked is that the people from Bioware actually say EA doesn’t dictate what kind of games they have to make. Bioware makes what they want. Even if this video is already 10 years old or if the people don’t work there anymore, why would this change? The only reason I could see this change, if the games just continue to underperform constantly, like what’s happening with Bungie at the moment.
Why do you think EA was the reason for cancelling Shadow Realms, pretty far into development? Do you know something others don’t? Don’t just say it’s obvious, because it’s EA.
You also mention how EA destroys or all the passion or creativity from their dev studios, but how are they doing that? You never explain that part, although you make it seem very obvious.
I think the reason why a bunch of these studios that were bought either go under or release sub-par games is much more simple, and it’s not directly EAs fault. After they are bought, management leaves, because they just got tons of money, or they might have a contract, which says they must stay for a few years, but after that they’ll leave anyway. Now there’s nobody left who made the original games, so the studio declines. It’s not like EA can do something against this, unless they make the devs sign some kind of slave contract, where they can never leave the game studio.
Bioware cancelled Shadow Realms because Mass Effect and Star Wars MMO was more profitable.
Read between the lines. EA canned it so the studio would give us Andromeda and more Old Republic. Oh but sure, “it wasn’t EA’s decision”.
Big stick.
Sometimes a tree is just a tree, man.
Maybe Bioware just wasn’t happy with the game, it happens all the time. Bioware also cancelled two games in 2013, looks like they were just doing a lot. So, possibly they were just stretched too thin with all those different projects. The founders also left Bioware shortly after Mass Effect 3. Who knows if they were the driving force behind the game, and after they left it didn’t really go anywhere.
There are tons of different explanations, but of course it’s all EAs fault. From what I’ve read, working for EA is actually really great, and people seem to love it. That doesn’t really gel with the soul-sucking image you try to paint. In the early 2000s they were actually garbage, with the whole EA spouse thing, but they have apparently massively improved since then.
Also, while this isn’t really evidence for anything, we’ve had actual stories that some publishers forced some type of game on a developer, like Redfall or possibly Fallout 76. Personally, I just think stories like these can’t stay hidden forever and will eventually make it out into the open, like the Anthem flying stuff.
It definitely could be, it just seems like there’s a pattern of fallen leaves surrounding EA. Also, EA is great to work for, that’s why they are so bad. I know that sounds silly, but I mean that in the sense of they offer the developers so much and all the dev needs to do is add a little MTX here and there.
Then all they need to do is do it again, but maybe follow something that’s trending. Then see if maybe the full game could be cut into pieces, to sell as DLC. Then see if you can implement more MTX, maybe this time add some smoke effects that you can pay to change the color of.
That said to your point, NFS Heat has MTX that were so bad and hated that EA again like with SWBF2 got the message and didn’t include MTX in Unbound. I wouldn’t really actually mind them too much in a way but it’s also somewhat more of a core aspect to the game that having it is just so… Odd.
But that’s the thing about EA. Why did it happen again. Why didn’t they keep the message they got the first time from SWBF2. Or Andromeda with $100 payment options for a lootbox system to get you to spend more.
These were all before Heat released, and EA still was fine with doing it again.
And don’t even get me started on The Sims. They have broken and killed so many copies of sims games for people that there are cracks specifically to circumvent patches. They don’t want people playing older games so they delist them, release a patch to break it (I’m not even joking, The Sims Medieval), and the user has to move on or never the game they paid for again. It’s cruel.
So maybe a tree is just a tree. Or maybe it’s a pattern that’s ebbs and flows and EA toes the line of what they can get away with nickel and dimeing players before they throw a fit, all while leaving studios to rot while the IP they bring to EA is marionetted every 8 years, 3 if it sells well.
Not only does this behavior always return, but it encourages other companies to follow suit – and moreso when you learn that all these executives just swap between companies and EA owned 20% of Ubisoft for a edit:
decade wasn’t deleted before I posted6 years ('04-'10).So those are some examples of what EA does, and I’m critical because they are good to work for, and their force in the gaming industry should not be the monolith of MTX but the big stick that delivers AAA games instead of junk that destroys a developers vision and standing with the gaming community while we beg for EA to get it through their thick skulls that games are better when you put passion into them. Anthem having flying be the best part of the game suggested by EA is like the bare minimum of what a leading studio should be accomplishing.
One last point that should indicate EA’s behavior is how they treated Star Wars games. When the mouse was breathing down their neck, they came out with Star Wars Squadrons without a single hint of microtransactions. The mouse was so peeved from the SWBF2 that EA wouldn’t dare add MTX.
And yet they don’t give that respect to their small studios. Bioware doesn’t get that pass. Dice doesn’t get that pass. Respawn doesn’t get that pass.
Anyway, hey: https://gamejobs.co/MTX-Software-Engineer-Intern-Apex-Legends-at-Electronic-Arts
EA has been hiring for Interns looking for Software Microtransaction Engineers. Still leading the charge in battle passes!
Sorry if this comes off as rambling. I’m trying not to.
At least for Dragon Age (2009) was in development since at least November 2002, 5 years before EA purchased Bioware.
You could also look at DICE, and the absolute shitshow every Battlefield has been since they were purchased by EA.
That would mean basically no good games for almost 20 years, which I can’t believe. Even Bad Company 2, BF3 and 4, apparently beloved games in the franchise, are terrible?
Look, I barely play EA games, I just think that they aren’t the sole or even major reason a bunch of their dev teams have turned to shit.
Nuance is lost. Simplistic narratives are everywhere - and there’s nothing simpler than blaming the big boogeyman for everything. I’m not saying that they haven’t made mistakes and aren’t to blame for a great many things, but not every time and everywhere for everything.
Destroyed Sim City franchise, made The Sims 4 a DLC hellhole, made Mass Effect 3’s shitty ending, maybe the mishandling of Battlefield 2042 and Battlefield 5?
Other things I could think of is releasing Origin and pulling their games from the Steam store. Other than that, I don’t really follow gaming news enough to list more, nor know enough to determine if everything I already listed are caused by EA.
Edit: I forgot Mass Effect Andromeda.
I guess if a game is bad, it’s EA’s fault, but if it’s good, it’s all because of the dev.
What about Mass Effect 1 and 2, EA had already bought Bioware at that point. What about other Battlefield games? People always rave about Bad Company 2 or maybe 3 and 4, but how come EA only chose to interfere after 20 years?
The interesting thing about BFV was that Dice got spread thin during development of the updates.
Battlefront 2 was not in good shape and started recieving a ton of fixes, and during that time is when BFV development slowed to a crawl.
I’m assuming disney was not happy with the negative press? But I have no real clue
So, one thing that’s funny is the one instance that popped into my head was when an EA exec actually recommended a feature that ended up making Anthem better (but also possibly worse?). There’s a famous story of how they were requested to add flying to the game, which added tons and tons of work and a good portion of dev time. But arguably was the best part of anthem. Unfortunately, they were unable to salvage it as we saw.