This is completely counter productive to growing Lemmy. I absolutely despise discord. Look at the network traffic it generates and tell me wtf they are doing. They won’t tell you. Their business model will leave you completely dumbfounded as to how they exist. Everything shared on the platform is lost in a black hole unavailable to the outside world and everything shared is a privacy nightmare. Posting this, pinning it here, and locking it is one of the biggest trolls possible. It pisses me off every time I log in. “Everyone else does it” is the excuse of idiots. Discord makes absolutely no sense to anyone that actually cares to look into it, read the user agreement, and ask sane questions about what they are doing.

  • Blaze
    354·
    11 months ago

    Currently there is no good alternative to Discord for actual chatting.

    Matrix?

      • Blaze
        134·
        10 months ago

        As you’ve probably seen from another comment

        https://github.com/Gnuxie/Draupnir

        The bot by default includes support for bans, redactions, anti-spam, server ACLs, room directory changes, room alias transfers, account deactivation, room shutdown, and more.

        And I know it’s self hosted and thus requires more work, which is why I suggested elsewhere to have a team of volunteers setting it up (the matrix room and draupnir server), presenting it to the LW admins, and letting they choose of they want to endorse it.

        What do you think of that? It would give people supporting Matrix a way to constructively try to come up with a solution that can potentially make everyone happy.

        • Rooki@lemmy.world
          31·
          10 months ago

          Cool but what if i dont have access to the server? As this would 3x the managing effort of the LW team.

          1. Matrix Server - Probably gets ddosed too
          2. The bot itself
          3. Learn Matrix itself for moderation, managing the server.

          At all LW wants to server a reliable ( unddosable ) service where you can get an response 99% of the time. And not “silencable” with a ddos. That costs more and more money.

          • Blaze
            62·
            10 months ago

            In this scenario, the newly formed Matrix would be in charge of those. They manage the servers, they moderate the chats, they even set up their own funding for recurring costs.

            LW staff can have access, but most of the operations are performed by the Matrix team.

            I am suggesting this as a way to have satisfying end to this discussion:

            • either the volunteers realize it’s impossible to use Matrix for this usecase, make it public, and then Discord becomes the reasonable solution
            • either the solution works and it can be used

            It’s a win win in any case, and probably a way to appease the resentment we can see in this thread

              • Blaze
                41·
                10 months ago

                Thanks for appreciating the idea.

                It’s probably going to be my last message about this topic (I already phrased some of my concerns with Rooki in another comment), but I just would like to repeat that allowing other people to help you could be a good way to leverage help of the community.

                IIRC, that’s what happened in the early days of LW, when LW admins and Lemmy devs would work together on fixing the Lemmy codebase, put to a real life workload for the first time.

                People in this thread seem eager to push for Matrix, you can either try to canalize their efforts into something productive, and then include it to LW, or just push for a proprietary platform they seem to despise, which will probably make them look somewhere else to build an open source solution.

                At the end of the day, the decision if yours, as always in the Fediverse, people are free to come and go.

                Anyway, thanks for the discussion, and have a good one!

            • Rooki@lemmy.world
              23·
              10 months ago

              Yeah but tbh, the only users who complain are outside LW. That is what LW admins see and think hmmm not so many LW users complain, rather only those who cant even see its pinned.

              It would add more effort and trust for LW again.

              The usecase will be blocked by 3 factors:

              We want it reliable, stable and not ddosable platform

              • Matrix can be ddosed and it would create extra costs and effort to stop it.

              Matrix is not userfriendly so much. It is hard to create custom bots for it.

              And the new liability risk it would add to LW would be not great

              • Blaze
                52·
                10 months ago

                Yeah but tbh, the only users who complain are outside LW. That is what LW admins see and think hmmm not so many LW users complain, rather only those who cant even see its pinned.

                They probably were LW at some point, and then left for one reason or another. It’s fair to ignore your former users, but I guess the reputation of LW might be impacted, and you might see more and more people advising others to move (you can already see it from time to time).

                Matrix can be ddosed and it would create extra costs and effort to stop it.

                Is it that easy to DDoS? I had a quick look, it seems that if CF is used there is already some mitigation (https://github.com/vector-im/element-web/issues/8691).

                I’m aware that Lemmy is still vulnerable to DDoS even behind CF, but as Matrix is older, the codebase should be more mature.

                Matrix is not userfriendly so much.

                Lemmy isn’t that friendly either, still we are all here. My core message is always that due to the emerging nature of Lemmy, I would except Lemmy users to be ready to use less polished software, in a Matrix vs Discord scenario. Otherwise, why bother with Lemmy and just not directly use Reddit with revanced apps?

                • Rooki@lemmy.world
                  11·
                  10 months ago

                  Lemmy is more friendlier. Its a basic Reddit. Matrix you have to sync up your encryption etc… i ditched it because of the horrible user experience and programming experience.

                  • Blaze
                    31·
                    10 months ago

                    It’s a basic Reddit without the community and, quite ironically in this discussion, without proper mod tools.

                    I am a huge defender of Lemmy, but there’s still a long way to go to say that it’s a basic Reddit.

                    When was the last time you tried Matrix? I had the same experience as you a few years ago, but I set up a room for one of my communities a few weeks back and the experience is much smoother. If Lemmy is a basic Reddit, Matrix is a basic Discord.

                    Programming experience, that might be the case, but there are a few bots and SDK available, so it should be at least usable (https://matrix.org/ecosystem/integrations/ https://github.com/turt2live/matrix-bot-sdk https://simple-matrix-bot-lib.readthedocs.io/en/latest/)

                    Anyway, I guess we probably won’t change our minds, but it was nice talking to you, have a good one!