Most comments I see and hear about women’s chlothing come from men. Nonetheless, we’re all raised in the same patriarchy and get educated with (roughly) similar values. So it does not matter whether these comments come from men, women, non binary or agender folks, they all originate in a patriarchical upbringing and the patriarchy is what needs to be brought down.
Doesn’t match my experience at all outside of topic threads designed for engagement.
Step off line and the vast majority of men couldn’t give two fucks and thinks you’re absurd for not having pockets. I’d they are aggressive assholes they’ll want you to show more skin. But the above is self inflicted.
Taking it further, I bet you most trans women give less a fuck then normal women.
Great example of how to miss the actual point. My experiences are different than yours. That’s not my point. My point is about how these are tied to societal expectations and gender roles that we, as a society, need to overcome.
How can one be against gender roles and be trans at the same time? (genuine question. people should obviously be able to do whatever they want, but I’m just curious).
First, this is just my thoughts on this. I don’t claim to have a final, concludent and universally valid answer.
While it seems to be needless to transition when gender roles are abolished, at the moment we do live in a society with quite clear gender roles in place. So as long as we are fighting to abolish gender roles, there will be people transitioning.
Another point would be that it is questionable if we are ever able to truely abolish gender roles or we as a society just have a tendency for suxh structures. But we should still be working on not to punish or ostracize people not conforming.
Next, transitioning is not just about gender roles and outward appearences, there is also a physical side to things. I am not an expert on this (or even educated enough) so I don’t try to get into details.
But after all, there is just more to being trans than just conforming to gender roles.
Thanks. Yes, I agree. My upbringing in the 80’s was to fight all gender stereotypes, and it kinda feels like the trans movement is giving up on that and fighting the wrong fight. Or worse, encouraging sexual stereotypes. But it’s true, we will probably never get rid of sexism, so I understand how it makes sense to just accept that and use it to better identify one’s self. I just really wish we could move beyond the hangups on bio sex, and so lessen the incentive to change one’s body surgically. It’s just that I know that anytime I’ve had surgery, like for knee reconstruction, or skin grafts, although that has been required, it had always led to complications later in life. If surgery can be avoided, I think it should be. Of course, people should be free to do what they want (if it doesn’t hurt anyone else).
But it’s true, we will probably never get rid of sexism, so I understand how it makes sense to just accept that and use it to better identify one’s self
That is not what I said. It’s more like we are still just at the beginning of the fight, not near the end and we should not give up on it.
Again, there is much more to sex and gender than just gender roles and XY chromosomes.
Yeah, I can speak ro the physical side to transitioning. I can’t imagine a world in which I’d be happy having a penis and no breasts. I’m a staunch feminist who believes in everyone’s right to perform or reject gender as they wish, but yeah my main problem was my body, it’s just that once I changed it I began feeling comfortable adding to the stylistic choices I had, though I still will rock masc styles as well, just in ways that compliment my feminine body
Yeah except my experience lines up with plenty of research that pretty consistently shows men trend towards physical aggression where women tend to trend towards social. Your experience represents a minority of the population.
Most comments I see and hear about women’s chlothing come from men. Nonetheless, we’re all raised in the same patriarchy and get educated with (roughly) similar values. So it does not matter whether these comments come from men, women, non binary or agender folks, they all originate in a patriarchical upbringing and the patriarchy is what needs to be brought down.
Doesn’t match my experience at all outside of topic threads designed for engagement.
Step off line and the vast majority of men couldn’t give two fucks and thinks you’re absurd for not having pockets. I’d they are aggressive assholes they’ll want you to show more skin. But the above is self inflicted.
Taking it further, I bet you most trans women give less a fuck then normal women.
Great example of how to miss the actual point. My experiences are different than yours. That’s not my point. My point is about how these are tied to societal expectations and gender roles that we, as a society, need to overcome.
How can one be against gender roles and be trans at the same time? (genuine question. people should obviously be able to do whatever they want, but I’m just curious).
First, this is just my thoughts on this. I don’t claim to have a final, concludent and universally valid answer.
While it seems to be needless to transition when gender roles are abolished, at the moment we do live in a society with quite clear gender roles in place. So as long as we are fighting to abolish gender roles, there will be people transitioning.
Another point would be that it is questionable if we are ever able to truely abolish gender roles or we as a society just have a tendency for suxh structures. But we should still be working on not to punish or ostracize people not conforming.
Next, transitioning is not just about gender roles and outward appearences, there is also a physical side to things. I am not an expert on this (or even educated enough) so I don’t try to get into details.
But after all, there is just more to being trans than just conforming to gender roles.
Thanks. Yes, I agree. My upbringing in the 80’s was to fight all gender stereotypes, and it kinda feels like the trans movement is giving up on that and fighting the wrong fight. Or worse, encouraging sexual stereotypes. But it’s true, we will probably never get rid of sexism, so I understand how it makes sense to just accept that and use it to better identify one’s self. I just really wish we could move beyond the hangups on bio sex, and so lessen the incentive to change one’s body surgically. It’s just that I know that anytime I’ve had surgery, like for knee reconstruction, or skin grafts, although that has been required, it had always led to complications later in life. If surgery can be avoided, I think it should be. Of course, people should be free to do what they want (if it doesn’t hurt anyone else).
That is not what I said. It’s more like we are still just at the beginning of the fight, not near the end and we should not give up on it.
Again, there is much more to sex and gender than just gender roles and XY chromosomes.
Yeah, I can speak ro the physical side to transitioning. I can’t imagine a world in which I’d be happy having a penis and no breasts. I’m a staunch feminist who believes in everyone’s right to perform or reject gender as they wish, but yeah my main problem was my body, it’s just that once I changed it I began feeling comfortable adding to the stylistic choices I had, though I still will rock masc styles as well, just in ways that compliment my feminine body
Yeah except my experience lines up with plenty of research that pretty consistently shows men trend towards physical aggression where women tend to trend towards social. Your experience represents a minority of the population.
You really want to make this not about what I actually want to point out. I’m not gonna argue like this.