Hey all,

So I’m looking to take an active step here to understand better some things that my straight/white/cis/middle-aged male brain has had a tough time wrapping itself around, particularly in the gender identity front.

I’m working from the understanding of physical sex as the bio-bits and the expressed identity as being separate things, so that part is easy enough.

What’s confusing to me though is like this. If we take gender as being an expression of your persona, a set of traits that define one as male, female, or some combination of both then what function does a title/pronoun serve? To assume that some things are masculine or feminine traits seems to put unneeded rigidity to things.

We’ve had men or women who enjoy things traditionally associated with the other gender for as long as there have been people I expect. If that’s the case then what purpose does the need for a gender title serve?

I’ll admit personally questioning some things like fairness in cis/trans integrated sports, but that’s outside what I’m asking here. Some things like bathroom laws are just society needing to get over itself in thinking our personal parts are all that special.

Certainly not trying to stir up any fights, just trying to get some input from people that have a different life experience than myself. Is it really as simple as a preferred title?

Edit: Just wanted to take a second to thank all the people here who took the time to write some truly extensive thoughts and explanations, even getting into some full on citation-laden studies into neurology that’ll give me plenty to digest. You all have shown a great deal of patience with me updating some thinking from the bio/social teachings of 20+ years back. 🙂

  • Drewelite@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
    3·
    3 months ago

    Thanks for the response and critique! I focused on the non-trans perspective specifically to add to the conversation because that’s the outsiders perspective for this community. Here, there’s a lot more understanding around the trans perspective. If I were to leave a comment for someone who was being transphobic or something, I’d try and foster the same patience, compassion, and understanding on the other side.

    It’s not “who does the burden lie with” – it lies with all of us. But if we encounter someone struggling to carry their weight, I think the first response being one of patience and understanding is a great foundation for progress. Now I am not advocating for a trans person, or anyone, suffering in silence. If someone made you uncomfortable, let them know. Just try and meet them where they’re coming from and be understanding.

    Of course if someone is being hostile the strategy needs to change a bit. I still believe in compassion and understanding here. But priority one is letting the other person know where your boundaries are, that they’re crossing them, and that’s not ok.

    None of this means you should conform. It’s not “Oh you want two refer to me by my dead name? Well I guess I’ll be compassionate and let you.”

    It is [without anger] “Again, remember, my name is X, that’s important to me. […] Hey, you called me X, I appreciate that.”

    I think in general the trans community has been amazing about this and really gets it. But I thought I’d share my perspective seeing as how it was relevant to the original comment. I welcome any other opinions or perspectives, maybe I’m missing something.

    • flora_explora@beehaw.org
      3·
      3 months ago

      I think you didn’t understand what I was trying to say. No, what you commented on is not an outsider’s perspective. You see, everyone who deviates from societal norms has their own perspective but is also forced to be familiar with the normative perspective. Every single one of us gets bombarded from birth to their death with the cis perspective. Because it is the norm you have to adapt to. So the cis perspective is nothing new to anyone here. Just as queer people also have to accommodate the straight perspective and black folk have to live with the white perspective as default.

      I know you mean well, but it feels rather patronizing to me.

      • Drewelite@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
        1·
        3 months ago

        Oh no, no patronizing intended! Thanks for understanding my intentions. I agree with all that. It’s very true that the societally normative perspective will always be more widely understood. Even by people who deviate from that norm. Not disputing that one bit. And the struggle of having to work around a society that’s not set up for you, is some real bullshit. I feel for anyone here who has to deal with that. The onus should really be on society to change.

        But practically speaking it’s extremely useful to gain new insights into different people’s perspectives. You never truly, completely understand someone who lives a different lifestyle from you. That’s ok. We don’t all have to be omnipotent, but filling in those gaps can help. I noticed the gap in that understanding when the original commenter referred to changing the way someone speaks to a trans person who’s come out as easy. I’ve heard that sentiment a lot, and even echoed it myself when talking to someone I felt like needed to hear it. In many cases they’re not wrong. But I’ve actually seen how difficult it can be for some people, leading to unnecessary tension.

        Should it be on them to figure out how to be respectful to other members of their society? Sure. But I think in practice, understanding on both sides can help bridge the gap.

        I’ll ruminate on what you said about patronizing. I must have implied undue ignorance or responsibility on the side of tans people. Which was not my intention, my bad. Sorry if there’s something I’m still not getting. I’m trying to understand more about the world every day 😅