- cross-posted to:
- usauthoritarianism@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- usauthoritarianism@lemmy.world
This is actually an older news story, and it does appear as though she recovered from this before her death.
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/14389544
What are you even talking about?
You confuse using a hands crank with operating a nuclear powerplant. It is not about what created the modern industrial society. It is about whether an elected committee would be able to run it and average people be able to oversee it. Which they wouldn’t. People that dedicate their entire lives to studying management and economics are barely able to.
ok, really, REALLY simply put:
Fire, is generally an exothermic reaction, straight up chemistry/physics forces, there is nothing you can do that will change these functions.
a Corporation is NOT based on any natural laws, a Corporation does not exist outside the cognitive, it is not a real thing, it is an idea, there is no corporate matter in the universe.
in other words, Corporations, unlike fire, can be whatever we want them to be.
because corporations can be anything, anything bad they do is an Inherent moral question, and unironically you defend corporations with the idea of “just following orders”
You can redefine the word corporation just as you can redefine the word fire.
But corporations are groups of people (and some other stuff). They way they behave is not governed by what is written in a law-book or dictionary, but by the complex interactions of people and environments.
You can try to regulate them with laws like you can try regulate a fire by building a fireplace, but that control is always going to be far from perfect.
Of course, that certainly does not mean you shouldn’t try, you must try just like with fire. But you need to be smart about it. It becomes more difficult as the corporations and the economy becomes larger.
There are ways to control forest fires, but the most effective is often a counterintuitive one. Control burns. You set even more stuff on fire. Capitalism is in a way a similar technique. You allow some resources to be wasted by the wealthy but the result of complex interactions between people is economic growth and better living standards even for the common people. Or you mess it up and the fire gets bigger, its not easy to regulate corporations.
Communism is in my opinion like a fireplace. It may work really well if you keep the system small and simple. But it falls apart as you add scale and complexity.
there is a lot of waffling about there, all for you to admit that you think “i was just following orders” was a valid excuse for the holocaust.
and then the idiotic “Communism is like a fire place”, you may think your comparisons sagely and wise, but they only serve to show how little you actually know, or have thought about any of this, for example, like I said before, do not equate capitalism with the advances of modernity, the standard of living started to improve a long time before capitalism was a thing, ironically capitalism strives to reduce the standard of living.
PS: it’s very easy to legislate corporations, that’s why they hate the EU so much.
I think you need to re-read the comment a few times because I have no idea who was talking about taking orders or holocaust.
As for my comparison, I made it as simplifies as I am possibly able to yet you still very obviously don’t understand if you think I am talking about advances of modernity.
Ahe logic of corporations being some non-moral entities, like fire, is the same logic that the Nazis used at the Nuremberg trials when they uttered the famous line of just following orders. The idea being that they were not responsible for the shit they did, as it was just a function of how the Nazis worked.
And yes, it is perfectly apt to call out flaws in your argument by using other, well known examples of the same theory being applied.
As for your comparison, I have pointed out that it’s shit because corporations aren’t some inherent force of nature and are entirely dictated both by society though the legislative process, and by the people committing the actions.
Fire exists outside human preview, no human “created” fire, fire has always been a thing because it’s a natural force, meanwhile, Corporations didn’t exist until English and Dutch traders pooled money and resources in the 1600s
Omg, you are so hung up on fire being natural phenomena. Fine, replace fire with nuclear rods. They are man made, they are dangerous. You can make them not radioactive but then they are useless and arguably no longer nuclear rods.
And who said the individuals in a corporation should enjoy some sort of immunity for following orders (or even giving them)? If employees break the law, prosecute them. Stop injecting nonsense into the conversation.
ya, one would think that in terms of morality, one being entirely a construct of humans, and the other being a natural phenomenon, there is a bit of a difference to be had
again, radiation is a natural force, the nuclear rod doesn’t do anything by its self. now one CAN talk about the uses of said nuclear rod, and THAT has moral implications, you know like how a bomb is amoral, but the army using it is very much morally culpable (unless of course you think the German army of 1933-1945 isn’t evil), because both armies and corporations are the same thing, a human construct.
so the Nazis weren’t the problem, just the individuals, ok.
if you don’t dump this toxic sludge in the middle of this town, your children will starve (yes, this is a thing that really happened), material circumstances exist, and any corporation not leveraging these material circumstances is lying or bankrupt (hence corporations are evil)
You do realize you are the one implying the Nazi soldiers aren’t evil, because the individual soldiers were threatened into serving:
So are people who are threatened into evil evil themselves? Make up your mind.
Either way, it is not relevant for my argument.
The way a group of individuals pursuing their goals interact with each other is a law of nature just as much as radiation. We just call a specific type of such group a corporation, just like we call a specific arrangement of fissile material a nuclear fuel rod.
Sure, you can “make” a corporation not be greedy by for example turning it into a non-profit. But you can’t do it without making unintentional undesirable changes, namely stopping them from being efficient in creating value. Just like you can “make” a nuclear fuel rod less radioactive, but not without damaging its usefulness as fuel. Because you can’t change the laws of how individual actions in a group create a complex system.