Like it or not (I for one do not), we live in a country where only two parties matter for the presidential election (third parties DO matter for state and even congress. just not executive).
If you are (American) left leaning and you vote Green party over Democrat? You are one less vote for the Democrats which is one more vote for the republicans when the math breaks down.
Younger folk (and older folk) don’t understand that because we do a horrifically bad job of teaching social studies in high school and tv shows love to emphasize “douche and a turd sandwich” logic to encourage abstaining.
Honestly? Fuck Biden. I have had serious issues with him ever since he was a wannabe cop pushing some really horrible drug legislation. But he is a Democrat and isn’t trump. It is as simple as that. Maybe he won’t help on a lot of issues I care about. He will help on a lot of other issues I do.
Which gets back down to it: if Palestine is the only issue you care about and the only issue anyone you care about cares about? Congrats, you won the privilege lottery and can skip the election. Otherwise? We have two candidates who basically have the same stance on Palestine and Israel (give money to the military industrial complex above all else). But they differ drastically on a LOT of other issues and a LOT of people will be harmed.
So if trans rights or women’s rights or even continuing to be a democracy-ish haven’t “earned your vote”? What does that say about you?
Except this is already happening where I live. And will continue to happen where I live under Biden. And will continue to not happen in blue states where it’s not currently happening. You are deeply unserious if you think Biden is going to do shit for women or trans people. You’ll have better luck pressuring Biden and the DNC to do something other than their current strategy than convincing the millions of people who ALREADY live in the reality you seem so afraid of.
If you genuinely think nothing will change regardless of who is president and who has the power to veto the batshit insane stuff republicans are pushing forward AND don’t understand why losing even more supreme court seats will fucks us over massively*: Watch the fucking news and actually listen to what republicans are campaigning on.
*: Because while I am still fucking angry at the Democrats for never codifying it and RBG for being too selfish to step down when she should, understand that the massive wave of abortion bans are a direct result of trump’s supreme court appointees
Then start pressuring the democratic party instead of people like me, whose vote has literally never counted towards anything because of the electoral college.
Because individuals don’t matter. People do. And there might be people in swing states who are reading this and saying “Yeah. I want to see change. I am gonna vote for Jill fucking Stein”.
But also? A large part of why we won in 2020 was because of Staey Abrams et al in Georgia. That was a red as hell state that almost entirely ran on voter disenfranchisement. And she and other advocates fought hard to make people ACTUALLY vote and it turned Blue. It has been an increasing acknowledgement that Texas is ACTUALLY a purple, if not blue, state but is gerrymandered to hell to prevent that.
Does every individual’s vote matter? No. Of course not. But every VOTE matters. Because it keeps blue states blue and it fights the efforts to disenfranchise voters in “red” states. And you accomplish that by pointing out the stupidity of people who are advocating for change by… not voting or even outright voting against their own interests.
You know whose votes made the difference in GA? Young voters, 35 and under. The same ones who disapprove of Biden’s genocide by over 80%. These same voters, when exercising free speech to protest this genocide, are being attacked and wrongly imprisoned by Biden’s jack booted thugs for doing so.
This is why Biden’s full throated support of Israel is the hill his presidency will die upon, and no matter how much you want to try to shift the blame onto voters, it’s entirely Biden’s fault.
It’s not a question of blame it’s a question of working in your own self interest. Next election you have 3 choices basically. First you can make things dramatically worse by voting Trump and pushing us even closer to the fascist dictatorship we’re already edging towards. Second you could vote Biden which while not really improving anything at least buys 4 more years for the GOP to continue its slow death. Third you can abstain by either not voting or voting for anybody else which dramatically hurts Biden and helps Trump because those voting for Trump aren’t the ones abstaining. Sure maybe it will send a message to the DNC, although history seems to show it won’t, but in the meantime you’ve just helped Cheeto Mussolini come into power and if you’re someone who would be considered liberal there’s a decent chance that’s going to get you killed or at least persecuted in the near future.
My 2020 harm reduction vote for Joseph Biden resulted in roe getting shredded with 0 pushback and whole hog support for Palestinian eradication. Will not be making that mistake again!
If trump had been re-elected, maybe libs would’ve kept pretending to care instead of checking out entirely cause Da Blue Team won or whatever. maybe we could’ve gotten something done out of sheer spite for Le Cheeto Benito. All having a lame duck dem in power has done is give everyone cover to not give a shit anymore.
The guy who is currently allowing a genocide to occur or even helping to perpetuate it, but could potentially be persuaded to take steps against it
Vote for 3rd party candidates or abstain from voting so that you can pat yourself on the back and say “I didn’t vote for genocide” even though that option doesn’t have a snowballs chance in hell of winning (no matter how much we wish that were the case)
The guy who is fully in support of the genocide and would very much like to support more genocides given the chance
And that’s not even touching on basically every other issue where candidate 1 is also far better (or at least much less bad) than candidate 3.
Voting for 2 takes votes primarily from candidate 1, candidate 3’s supporters by and large have no intention of jumping ship no matter what. So you’re effectively taking votes away from the one candidate who has any chance of winning that we might be able to talk out of genocide, and allowing candidate 3 to win so he can do even more genocide.
I’ve voted 3rd party nearly every opportunity I’ve had for most of my adult life, and I hope at some point we return to some level of sanity and I can feel safe resuming that. Right now, we are faced with 2 possible outcomes, bad and cartoonishly evil, whatever thoughts you have about this being the year of the 3rd party candidate are delusional, the movement just isn’t there right now, and while normally I’d be all about the idea of a protest vote, you only get the one vote, and would you rather use it to send a message, or to actually avoid the worst outcome?
That’s good, we can get the Muslim ban guy back in. He says Israel should, “finish the job,” with peace talks, I’m sure! Good job, buddy, you did it. You ended the genocide by choosing the authoritarian who ran on a campaign of racism. Authoritarian governments would never accelerate or intensify the invasions of foreign countries.
It’s not a 2 party system, it’s a corporate uni-party and they’re all being paid by AIPAC to let the genocide continue. It’s disgusting, and for this reason alone I won’t support either of those parties. If either party cares about politics at all, more than their donor money, then a sizable vote for green/PSL should register with them and force them to adjust their campaigning in ‘28, or else they’ll lose power rapidly as 3rd parties gain momentum. From this perspective, which you clearly don’t understand, voting for either R or D is throwing a vote away. Voting for a better alternative is not giving a vote to Trump, that is the simpleton turd sandwich framing which you’ve just desparaged. This blames voters, and it’s wrong - Biden is losing these votes all by himself.
I’d like to briefly address your last comment as well. Democrats have had numerous opportunities in the last 20 years to codify Roe into law, and they chose not to do so. Instead, they wanted to fear monger over republicans taking away women’s bodily autonomy and fundraise off of it. All the while, manufacturing consent for the republicans to do just that. It’s very leopards ate my face to act surprised about this, and disingenuous at best to claim democrats are some kind of women’s rights champions. If you’re at all interested in a leader who will actually safeguard women, cis or trans, vote for Jill Stein this November.
Imagine being so privileged as to be able to just deal with 4 years of Trump in the hope that somehow the message heard will be “oop should’ve given us a better candidate, Dems!” and not “well fuck we’d better go even further right to keep up”.
Imagine being so privileged that you don’t already live in a state where all the things being fear-mongered about to support Biden are already happening.
Imagine being able to prosecute Trump 3 years ago, but waiting until ‘24 to try and make it political (and show your hand that you were never serious about holding the elite accountable to begin with). Keep “looking forward, not backward” and never learn a damn thing.
There won’t be a sizable vote for the third party, though. Stein got 1% in 2016. That’s a rounding error. There will never be a sizable vote for a third party as long as we have FPTP.
They don’t give a shit about third party votes at all. The only thing that would actually get their attention is young adults consistently and reliably coming out to vote in every election.
Hopefully you are able to vote again in 2028. I know mommy and daddy’s money must be sheltering you from needing to worry about losing your rights, but the guy has already done one insurrection. It is actually looking pretty grim.
Voting for a better alternative is not giving a vote to Trump
Incorrect.
First Past the Post says fuck you, and First Past the Post is the reality. Until we change the voting system, third parties will never gain momentum. It is statistically impossible. You may as well get hit by a meteor while turning in your winning Powerball ticket.
Oh, and nevermind that if Trump wins, none of this will matter. All future “elections” will be won by a Republican with 110% of the vote
Like it or not (I for one do not), we live in a country where only two parties matter for the presidential election (third parties DO matter for state and even congress. just not executive).
If you are (American) left leaning and you vote Green party over Democrat? You are one less vote for the Democrats which is one more vote for the republicans when the math breaks down.
Younger folk (and older folk) don’t understand that because we do a horrifically bad job of teaching social studies in high school and tv shows love to emphasize “douche and a turd sandwich” logic to encourage abstaining.
Honestly? Fuck Biden. I have had serious issues with him ever since he was a wannabe cop pushing some really horrible drug legislation. But he is a Democrat and isn’t trump. It is as simple as that. Maybe he won’t help on a lot of issues I care about. He will help on a lot of other issues I do.
Which gets back down to it: if Palestine is the only issue you care about and the only issue anyone you care about cares about? Congrats, you won the privilege lottery and can skip the election. Otherwise? We have two candidates who basically have the same stance on Palestine and Israel (give money to the military industrial complex above all else). But they differ drastically on a LOT of other issues and a LOT of people will be harmed.
So if trans rights or women’s rights or even continuing to be a democracy-ish haven’t “earned your vote”? What does that say about you?
“If you don’t vote for exactly one candidate, democracy dies”
I think democracy’s already dead
I mean, if we don’t do anything (and signs are we won’t, even if Biden wins)… yeah.
But it is still harm minimization. It is another few years for people to live and not be persecuted because of the sex organs they were born with.
Except this is already happening where I live. And will continue to happen where I live under Biden. And will continue to not happen in blue states where it’s not currently happening. You are deeply unserious if you think Biden is going to do shit for women or trans people. You’ll have better luck pressuring Biden and the DNC to do something other than their current strategy than convincing the millions of people who ALREADY live in the reality you seem so afraid of.
If you genuinely think nothing will change regardless of who is president and who has the power to veto the batshit insane stuff republicans are pushing forward AND don’t understand why losing even more supreme court seats will fucks us over massively*: Watch the fucking news and actually listen to what republicans are campaigning on.
*: Because while I am still fucking angry at the Democrats for never codifying it and RBG for being too selfish to step down when she should, understand that the massive wave of abortion bans are a direct result of trump’s supreme court appointees
Then start pressuring the democratic party instead of people like me, whose vote has literally never counted towards anything because of the electoral college.
Because individuals don’t matter. People do. And there might be people in swing states who are reading this and saying “Yeah. I want to see change. I am gonna vote for Jill fucking Stein”.
But also? A large part of why we won in 2020 was because of Staey Abrams et al in Georgia. That was a red as hell state that almost entirely ran on voter disenfranchisement. And she and other advocates fought hard to make people ACTUALLY vote and it turned Blue. It has been an increasing acknowledgement that Texas is ACTUALLY a purple, if not blue, state but is gerrymandered to hell to prevent that.
Does every individual’s vote matter? No. Of course not. But every VOTE matters. Because it keeps blue states blue and it fights the efforts to disenfranchise voters in “red” states. And you accomplish that by pointing out the stupidity of people who are advocating for change by… not voting or even outright voting against their own interests.
You know whose votes made the difference in GA? Young voters, 35 and under. The same ones who disapprove of Biden’s genocide by over 80%. These same voters, when exercising free speech to protest this genocide, are being attacked and wrongly imprisoned by Biden’s jack booted thugs for doing so.
This is why Biden’s full throated support of Israel is the hill his presidency will die upon, and no matter how much you want to try to shift the blame onto voters, it’s entirely Biden’s fault.
It’s not a question of blame it’s a question of working in your own self interest. Next election you have 3 choices basically. First you can make things dramatically worse by voting Trump and pushing us even closer to the fascist dictatorship we’re already edging towards. Second you could vote Biden which while not really improving anything at least buys 4 more years for the GOP to continue its slow death. Third you can abstain by either not voting or voting for anybody else which dramatically hurts Biden and helps Trump because those voting for Trump aren’t the ones abstaining. Sure maybe it will send a message to the DNC, although history seems to show it won’t, but in the meantime you’ve just helped Cheeto Mussolini come into power and if you’re someone who would be considered liberal there’s a decent chance that’s going to get you killed or at least persecuted in the near future.
My 2020 harm reduction vote for Joseph Biden resulted in roe getting shredded with 0 pushback and whole hog support for Palestinian eradication. Will not be making that mistake again!
…do you actually not realize how much worse Trump would’ve been?
If trump had been re-elected, maybe libs would’ve kept pretending to care instead of checking out entirely cause Da Blue Team won or whatever. maybe we could’ve gotten something done out of sheer spite for Le Cheeto Benito. All having a lame duck dem in power has done is give everyone cover to not give a shit anymore.
At least Democrats, by showing their ass on this issue, have helped to awaken the American people to the lies of Israel and the United States.
If Trump were president it would all just be blamed on Trump and Netanyahu. Since it’s Biden it’s easier for everyone to see the bigger picture.
I draw the line at genocide. Determine what you will if you choose.
So your current voting options are
The guy who is currently allowing a genocide to occur or even helping to perpetuate it, but could potentially be persuaded to take steps against it
Vote for 3rd party candidates or abstain from voting so that you can pat yourself on the back and say “I didn’t vote for genocide” even though that option doesn’t have a snowballs chance in hell of winning (no matter how much we wish that were the case)
The guy who is fully in support of the genocide and would very much like to support more genocides given the chance
And that’s not even touching on basically every other issue where candidate 1 is also far better (or at least much less bad) than candidate 3.
Voting for 2 takes votes primarily from candidate 1, candidate 3’s supporters by and large have no intention of jumping ship no matter what. So you’re effectively taking votes away from the one candidate who has any chance of winning that we might be able to talk out of genocide, and allowing candidate 3 to win so he can do even more genocide.
I’ve voted 3rd party nearly every opportunity I’ve had for most of my adult life, and I hope at some point we return to some level of sanity and I can feel safe resuming that. Right now, we are faced with 2 possible outcomes, bad and cartoonishly evil, whatever thoughts you have about this being the year of the 3rd party candidate are delusional, the movement just isn’t there right now, and while normally I’d be all about the idea of a protest vote, you only get the one vote, and would you rather use it to send a message, or to actually avoid the worst outcome?
Perfect, as they say, is the enemy of good.
So trans genocide doesn’t matter to you? Neither does the further eroding of women’s rights?
Got it.
Comments like this make it seem like you only care about trans people as a cudgel to use against people
I don’t care that you chose to determine that.
I draw the line at genocide.
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I’m trans.
Don’t you fucking dare do this in my name.
I will not vote for genocide.
That’s good, we can get the Muslim ban guy back in. He says Israel should, “finish the job,” with peace talks, I’m sure! Good job, buddy, you did it. You ended the genocide by choosing the authoritarian who ran on a campaign of racism. Authoritarian governments would never accelerate or intensify the invasions of foreign countries.
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It’s not a 2 party system, it’s a corporate uni-party and they’re all being paid by AIPAC to let the genocide continue. It’s disgusting, and for this reason alone I won’t support either of those parties. If either party cares about politics at all, more than their donor money, then a sizable vote for green/PSL should register with them and force them to adjust their campaigning in ‘28, or else they’ll lose power rapidly as 3rd parties gain momentum. From this perspective, which you clearly don’t understand, voting for either R or D is throwing a vote away. Voting for a better alternative is not giving a vote to Trump, that is the simpleton turd sandwich framing which you’ve just desparaged. This blames voters, and it’s wrong - Biden is losing these votes all by himself.
I’d like to briefly address your last comment as well. Democrats have had numerous opportunities in the last 20 years to codify Roe into law, and they chose not to do so. Instead, they wanted to fear monger over republicans taking away women’s bodily autonomy and fundraise off of it. All the while, manufacturing consent for the republicans to do just that. It’s very leopards ate my face to act surprised about this, and disingenuous at best to claim democrats are some kind of women’s rights champions. If you’re at all interested in a leader who will actually safeguard women, cis or trans, vote for Jill Stein this November.
Imagine being so privileged as to be able to just deal with 4 years of Trump in the hope that somehow the message heard will be “oop should’ve given us a better candidate, Dems!” and not “well fuck we’d better go even further right to keep up”.
Imagine being so privileged that you don’t already live in a state where all the things being fear-mongered about to support Biden are already happening.
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Imagine being able to prosecute Trump 3 years ago, but waiting until ‘24 to try and make it political (and show your hand that you were never serious about holding the elite accountable to begin with). Keep “looking forward, not backward” and never learn a damn thing.
There won’t be a sizable vote for the third party, though. Stein got 1% in 2016. That’s a rounding error. There will never be a sizable vote for a third party as long as we have FPTP.
They don’t give a shit about third party votes at all. The only thing that would actually get their attention is young adults consistently and reliably coming out to vote in every election.
Hopefully you are able to vote again in 2028. I know mommy and daddy’s money must be sheltering you from needing to worry about losing your rights, but the guy has already done one insurrection. It is actually looking pretty grim.
Incorrect.
First Past the Post says fuck you, and First Past the Post is the reality. Until we change the voting system, third parties will never gain momentum. It is statistically impossible. You may as well get hit by a meteor while turning in your winning Powerball ticket.
Oh, and nevermind that if Trump wins, none of this will matter. All future “elections” will be won by a Republican with 110% of the vote
We are wel past the point of no return.
Not seeing a difference right now tbh.