The article gets quite a lot right. Both sets of products are solving problems that didn’t exist, and create problems that very much do. These range from psycho-social problems to physical environmental problems.
The answer is don’t buy either. But that means being ok with being able to smell one another. That would be a return to the default state of probably a million years. But how are we all going to do that at the same time over night?
I didn’t say don’t use anything, I said it’s valid to decide not use products marketed as “deodorant” and “Antiperspirant”. It’s not like I follow that advice. I wear deodorant, and aftershave. But I have experimented with not wearing any, and using “eco” ones.
What I am saying is that I do agree with what is in the article, which is summarised as both products have created a false problem, and used that to create a market.
And it isn’t at all like AC. Humans smell. It’s not a completely negative thing to me. I don’t want a completely sanitised olfactory experience. If you wash daily, most of the time, Antiperspirant isn’t needed. But depends on what you are doing and what the climate is. In temperate conditions, I can go a day without smelling any different, without deodorant on. It changes when the weather is hot, and if I do strenuous exercise. But you can just wash more often.
What I’ve found is that certain soaps change the situation, as does what I eat. Garlic and Cumin seems to have a significant effect.
Nope. Wear your deodorant. It was invented because it makes people smell more recently cleaned, which has always been more hygienic and therefore more appealing. The problems do exist absent of culture and marketing.
You’re not comparing apples to apples when you compare the worst and most overpowering body spray to “Slight body-smell”.
And you smell less after establishing a no-deodorant routine. You still smell, and a lot at that. Diet isn’t going to get rid of that. People still notice and you still stink.
You still smell, and a lot at that. Diet isn’t going to get rid of that. People still notice and you still stink.
I haven’t said that I don’t smell at all, but just using water, and avoiding stale-sweat (by washing with water, which is rather effective).
But I wouldn’t consider it a lot, at least not, when the people aren’t like really close, or straight up sniff my armpits ^^
Maybe worth adding, is that I almost exclusively wear merino-wool shirts, which likely helps further reducing BO
Yeah, my experiences during COVID when I couldn’t leave the house and stopped wearing deodorant is that the smell doesn’t become less. I didn’t wear deodorant for over a month and it was the same.
Have you tried just using just water while washing armpits? This had by far the greatest effect of reducing BO for me. I mean it’s still there, but not that it concerns me most of the time, I’m also sometimes washing armpits with water during the day, when I’m sweating more than usual.
I’m no expert, but there’s a chance you’re just getting used to the smell (Of course everybody is a little different and some people barely smell and others, like myself, have quite a strong smell). Which, ironically is kind of the point. I believe before deodorant people had ways to make themselves smell nicer, but I don’t think they had anything that completely stops the BO like deodorant does for such a long period of time. So, I guess it kind of did solve a problem that didn’t exist, because people normally would smell.
On the other hand, at this point most of modern society likes when people do not smell like BO, So I will be continuing to use deodorant.
true, perfume etc. is nothing new, probably older than cultivating plants.
chance you’re just getting used to the smell
Maybe slightly, but as soon as I’m using soap, I quickly notice stink after a short time after showering as counter-example.
I think the body just has use less fluid to nurse the skin after washing with just water, and than there’s a slightly different skin-flora I think.
I sometimes use DIY deo (basically soda+coconut-oil) when I’m noticing stink, but rarely, that works quite well, while being somewhat neutral in smell.
most of modern society likes when people do not smell like BO
I’m not so sure about that. Probably not a strong stale-sweat BO, but there are studies, where fresh sweat had IIRC a strong arousing effect on the opposite gender. I guess it quite depends on the BO…
I may not be the norm, but I’m somewhat opposed to most of the often penetrant deo smell. I also would consider my sense of smell rather sensitive (I hate the fumes of motorcycles and cars in the road-traffic, and often hold breath there)
So what you’re telling me is, the solution to stop bacteria from producing smells is to let it multiply and thrive? Everyone who has ever given me the advice you’re giving me stinks of BO. Our ancestors stank. You’re not producing less stank, you’re just getting used to it.
Well the “stink” is AFAIK produced by bacteria etc. after sweating, i.e. stale sweat.
AFAIK fresh sweat has a somewhat arousing effect on the opposite gender.
I guess, when you’re not constantly drying out your skin by washing all the body fats away, it just needs to produce less body fluid to nurture the skin etc. which leads to less stink, because it can be washed away quite effectively (but less so the body fats) by just using water (not as effective as with soap etc. though, but it takes maybe 2 hours or so and then I’m stinking when using soap, btw. counter-example to that I’m getting used to the stink). I also think the different composition of the skin flora may add to that.
Before you’re judging, have you tried washing the skin with just water (my skin health has improved since using only water on the body, and I have rather sensitive skin)?.
I appreciate the advice, but I already do wear deodorant. I guess whether they are problems or not is subjective. I’m not convinced that being sanitised is a good thing. Microbiome of the skin is a thing. Being more hygienic and therefore more appealing is also subjective. Hygienic isn’t high up on my list of qualities of value. Obviously, there’s a threshold and everyone has a different value for it.
But that means being ok with being able to smell one another.
I worked for an international company and during the company retreat, HR had to gently tell a few people to wear deodorant.
Not trying to shit on cultures and countries that don’t believe in it, but it smelled like a teenage locker room had sex with a mtg convention. Even the hippy developers were disgusted.
The article gets quite a lot right. Both sets of products are solving problems that didn’t exist, and create problems that very much do. These range from psycho-social problems to physical environmental problems.
The answer is don’t buy either. But that means being ok with being able to smell one another. That would be a return to the default state of probably a million years. But how are we all going to do that at the same time over night?
The ancient Greeks and Egyptians used perfumes to make themselves more appealing.
It’s like saying people never complained about the heat before the invention of the air conditioner.
I didn’t say don’t use anything, I said it’s valid to decide not use products marketed as “deodorant” and “Antiperspirant”. It’s not like I follow that advice. I wear deodorant, and aftershave. But I have experimented with not wearing any, and using “eco” ones.
What I am saying is that I do agree with what is in the article, which is summarised as both products have created a false problem, and used that to create a market.
And it isn’t at all like AC. Humans smell. It’s not a completely negative thing to me. I don’t want a completely sanitised olfactory experience. If you wash daily, most of the time, Antiperspirant isn’t needed. But depends on what you are doing and what the climate is. In temperate conditions, I can go a day without smelling any different, without deodorant on. It changes when the weather is hot, and if I do strenuous exercise. But you can just wash more often.
What I’ve found is that certain soaps change the situation, as does what I eat. Garlic and Cumin seems to have a significant effect.
Nope. Wear your deodorant. It was invented because it makes people smell more recently cleaned, which has always been more hygienic and therefore more appealing. The problems do exist absent of culture and marketing.
Honestly I prefer slight body-smell over the typical Axe mix with sweat.
Another thing: you smell less when you’re not constantly using deo (and washing your skin with soap etc. water is enough most of the time).
Just have good hygiene and eat/live healthy, you"ll be surprised that you don’t need deo most of the time.
You’re not comparing apples to apples when you compare the worst and most overpowering body spray to “Slight body-smell”.
And you smell less after establishing a no-deodorant routine. You still smell, and a lot at that. Diet isn’t going to get rid of that. People still notice and you still stink.
Not everyone is the same, some people should wash more often or wear deodorant, some people don’t need to.
I haven’t said that I don’t smell at all, but just using water, and avoiding stale-sweat (by washing with water, which is rather effective). But I wouldn’t consider it a lot, at least not, when the people aren’t like really close, or straight up sniff my armpits ^^
Maybe worth adding, is that I almost exclusively wear merino-wool shirts, which likely helps further reducing BO
Yeah, my experiences during COVID when I couldn’t leave the house and stopped wearing deodorant is that the smell doesn’t become less. I didn’t wear deodorant for over a month and it was the same.
Have you tried just using just water while washing armpits? This had by far the greatest effect of reducing BO for me. I mean it’s still there, but not that it concerns me most of the time, I’m also sometimes washing armpits with water during the day, when I’m sweating more than usual.
I’m no expert, but there’s a chance you’re just getting used to the smell (Of course everybody is a little different and some people barely smell and others, like myself, have quite a strong smell). Which, ironically is kind of the point. I believe before deodorant people had ways to make themselves smell nicer, but I don’t think they had anything that completely stops the BO like deodorant does for such a long period of time. So, I guess it kind of did solve a problem that didn’t exist, because people normally would smell.
On the other hand, at this point most of modern society likes when people do not smell like BO, So I will be continuing to use deodorant.
true, perfume etc. is nothing new, probably older than cultivating plants.
Maybe slightly, but as soon as I’m using soap, I quickly notice stink after a short time after showering as counter-example.
I think the body just has use less fluid to nurse the skin after washing with just water, and than there’s a slightly different skin-flora I think.
I sometimes use DIY deo (basically soda+coconut-oil) when I’m noticing stink, but rarely, that works quite well, while being somewhat neutral in smell.
I’m not so sure about that. Probably not a strong stale-sweat BO, but there are studies, where fresh sweat had IIRC a strong arousing effect on the opposite gender. I guess it quite depends on the BO…
I may not be the norm, but I’m somewhat opposed to most of the often penetrant deo smell. I also would consider my sense of smell rather sensitive (I hate the fumes of motorcycles and cars in the road-traffic, and often hold breath there)
So what you’re telling me is, the solution to stop bacteria from producing smells is to let it multiply and thrive? Everyone who has ever given me the advice you’re giving me stinks of BO. Our ancestors stank. You’re not producing less stank, you’re just getting used to it.
Well the “stink” is AFAIK produced by bacteria etc. after sweating, i.e. stale sweat.
AFAIK fresh sweat has a somewhat arousing effect on the opposite gender.
I guess, when you’re not constantly drying out your skin by washing all the body fats away, it just needs to produce less body fluid to nurture the skin etc. which leads to less stink, because it can be washed away quite effectively (but less so the body fats) by just using water (not as effective as with soap etc. though, but it takes maybe 2 hours or so and then I’m stinking when using soap, btw. counter-example to that I’m getting used to the stink). I also think the different composition of the skin flora may add to that.
Before you’re judging, have you tried washing the skin with just water (my skin health has improved since using only water on the body, and I have rather sensitive skin)?.
Sounds like bro science to me. I’m a greasy mfer and my skin is fine with being washed
It is not, I can’t remember the article(s?) anymore though.
But it also makes sense out of an evolutionary perspective, as being more active (hunting etc.) potentially means higher survival/success rate.
My skin is also “fine” with being washed, but it’s healthier by not washing it (so often, or just with water)
I appreciate the advice, but I already do wear deodorant. I guess whether they are problems or not is subjective. I’m not convinced that being sanitised is a good thing. Microbiome of the skin is a thing. Being more hygienic and therefore more appealing is also subjective. Hygienic isn’t high up on my list of qualities of value. Obviously, there’s a threshold and everyone has a different value for it.
I worked for an international company and during the company retreat, HR had to gently tell a few people to wear deodorant.
Not trying to shit on cultures and countries that don’t believe in it, but it smelled like a teenage locker room had sex with a mtg convention. Even the hippy developers were disgusted.