I wouldn’t equate prostitution with porn production. Prostitution implies an exchange of money. Porn can be produced without money.
In the same work by Engels that you are referencing, he is writing about abolition of the family unit. He says that the family unit and monogamy exists because women are dependent on men under patriarchy and monogamy gives men power over women. Engels says that without patriarchy, children will be raised by the community rather than by individual families.
Our sexual love differs essentially from the simple sexual desire, the Eros, of the ancients. In the first place, it assumes that the person loved returns the love; to this extent the woman is on an equal footing with the man, whereas in the Eros of antiquity she was often not even asked. Secondly, our sexual love has a degree of intensity and duration which makes both lovers feel that non-possession and separation are a great, if not the greatest, calamity; to possess one another, they risk high stakes, even life itself. In the ancient world this happened only, if at all, in adultery. And, finally, there arises a new moral standard in the judgment of a sexual relationship. We do not only ask, was it within or outside marriage? But also, did it spring from love and reciprocated love or not? Of course, this new standard has fared no better in feudal or bourgeois practice than all the other standards of morality – it is ignored. But neither does it fare any worse. It is recognized just as much as they are – in theory, on paper. And for the present it cannot ask anything more.
Engels says that without the confines of monogamous marriage and the family unit, with women having equal footing in society, people are free to have sex for the purpose of love. I wouldn’t say that people are limited to having sex for the purpose of love. It also doesn’t mention filming the sex. It’s also very heteronormative, but that is something else. The point of Engel’s writing is that he’s saying ending the family unit will give people, particularly women, more sexual freedom. It’s not about enforcing heterosexuality or monogamy or limiting sex.
Editting my post to say that it’s very weird that you think the word “cuckold” is related to porn. Engels used the word cuckold in the writing to describe an abusive husband whose wife decided to cheat on him. Not related to porn at all. Engels just sort of implies that adultery will be less likely in the future because women will have economic independence, leave men instead of cheating.
Engels just sort of implies that adultery will be less likely in the future because women will have economic independence, leave men instead of cheating.
That’s why I mention it. Wouldn’t there be a lot less women getting into porn if they were economically independent?
What we can now conjecture about the way in which sexual relations will be ordered after the impending overthrow of capitalist production is mainly of a negative character, limited for the most part to what will disappear. But what will there be new? That will be answered when a new generation has grown up: a generation of men who never in their lives have known what it is to buy a woman’s surrender with money or any other social instrument of power; a generation of women who have never known what it is to give themselves to a man from any other considerations than real love, or to refuse to give themselves to their lover from fear of the economic consequences. When these people are in the world, they will care precious little what anybody today thinks they ought to do; they will make their own practice and their corresponding public opinion about the practice of each individual – and that will be the end of it.
Engels says in the conclusion of the writing that we don’t really know what sex will look like after the end of capitalism and I think I agree. He says that after men stop paying for sex and woman are able to choose a sexual partner for reasons other than economic dependence, then there will be more sexual freedom. “they will care precious little what anybody today thinks they ought to do; they will make their own practice” He says that the new sexual freedom will create new sexual practices.
I think we can’t really say whether it will lead to more or less pornography. Maybe without economic pressures of capitalism, people will feel more free to create pornography for pleasure. Maybe without social stigma against sex, people will feel that they can create pornography without being socially outcast. Currently many people film themselves doing sexual acts for the purposes of “sexting”. In the future, people will invent new ways of doing sexual acts that we do not currently understand. Just 2 generations ago, sexting was an unimaginable concept, 2 generations from now will have sexual norms that we don’t understand currently. However, I don’t think people will stop filming sexual acts.
Engels did write about how prostitution (and cuckoldry) wouldn’t exist under communism. The principle seems similar here.
I wouldn’t equate prostitution with porn production. Prostitution implies an exchange of money. Porn can be produced without money.
In the same work by Engels that you are referencing, he is writing about abolition of the family unit. He says that the family unit and monogamy exists because women are dependent on men under patriarchy and monogamy gives men power over women. Engels says that without patriarchy, children will be raised by the community rather than by individual families.
Engels says that without the confines of monogamous marriage and the family unit, with women having equal footing in society, people are free to have sex for the purpose of love. I wouldn’t say that people are limited to having sex for the purpose of love. It also doesn’t mention filming the sex. It’s also very heteronormative, but that is something else. The point of Engel’s writing is that he’s saying ending the family unit will give people, particularly women, more sexual freedom. It’s not about enforcing heterosexuality or monogamy or limiting sex.
Editting my post to say that it’s very weird that you think the word “cuckold” is related to porn. Engels used the word cuckold in the writing to describe an abusive husband whose wife decided to cheat on him. Not related to porn at all. Engels just sort of implies that adultery will be less likely in the future because women will have economic independence, leave men instead of cheating.
That’s why I mention it. Wouldn’t there be a lot less women getting into porn if they were economically independent?
Engels says in the conclusion of the writing that we don’t really know what sex will look like after the end of capitalism and I think I agree. He says that after men stop paying for sex and woman are able to choose a sexual partner for reasons other than economic dependence, then there will be more sexual freedom. “they will care precious little what anybody today thinks they ought to do; they will make their own practice” He says that the new sexual freedom will create new sexual practices.
I think we can’t really say whether it will lead to more or less pornography. Maybe without economic pressures of capitalism, people will feel more free to create pornography for pleasure. Maybe without social stigma against sex, people will feel that they can create pornography without being socially outcast. Currently many people film themselves doing sexual acts for the purposes of “sexting”. In the future, people will invent new ways of doing sexual acts that we do not currently understand. Just 2 generations ago, sexting was an unimaginable concept, 2 generations from now will have sexual norms that we don’t understand currently. However, I don’t think people will stop filming sexual acts.
Solid analysis. Thanks for this exchange.