tweet in which jon points out the obvious and libs get mad
excerpt from a Lib
:
Jon gives his best impression of a 14 year old tankie in this video.
The following is true simultaneously:
- It is appropriate to critique US foreign policy, it’s actually necessary in a free society.
- Some bad actions are worse than others. Iraq wasn’t annexed into the 51st state, as opposed to Crimea, Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia.
- Not all foreign policy decisions are zero sum, it’s possible for both parties to derive a benefit from an agreement (US and Philippines for example).
what a great deal
i receive Military bases and access to your natural resources
you 
received: a US backed dictatorship
- The world does not revolve around the US, people in the Kremlin have agency.
- The Russian invasion of Ukraine and PRC threats of a Taiwan invasion are not about US foreign policy, they are a response to internal Russian and PRC pressures.
- Not every policy decision is based on trade and natural resources, those some of the variables in a long list of strategic considerations.
Which is worse:
Starting a war to take territory that results in the deaths of 10s of thousands (yes, I know, I’m deliberately meeting liberals on their terms here)
Starting a war to install a puppet government that results in the deaths of over 4 million
I will never understand the liberal fascination with lines on a map. Since mentioning the history of US intervention in the region is mostly viewed as “conspiracy”, I’ve started to ask liberals: will life be meaningfully worse under Russian occupation for the people living in the region they’ve seized, or will it be about the same? If there’s no difference, why should we support sending thousands of conscripts to their deaths?
The problem with that is far too many liberals sincerely believe this idea they invented themselves that this is going to result in some Ukrainian genocide by the Russians, either fully murdering everyone or a cultural genocide by replacing them and their culture with Russia’s
The reality is of course that no, life will not meaningfully change, but few libs actually engage with material reality
It’s even worse than that. They don’t think genocide is going to happen, they think it’s happening. I’ve heard liberals saying that pro Palestine activists are hypocrites for not protesting against Russia because the war in Ukraine is apparently “quantifiably worse in terms of death displacement and suffering”. Nevermind the United Nations themselves reporting that child deaths in Gaza in the past 8 months exceed deaths in all other global conflict combined in the past 4 years. They have an entirely made up set of facts in their heads.
The UN are captured by tankies don’t you know, they reported there’s no genocide in Xinjiang and so are controlled by China
Both. Both are horrific. It’s like the trolley problem: it’s artificial and you shouldn’t solve it
Ok.
But I think 150 million Russians being plundered by the US again actually is worse.
So far nobody talks about plundering Russia, unless Putin attacks the Baltic states.
But TBH, given how the West implements sanctions, this plundering would look like they’re shooting in their leg.
Nobody’s outright talking plunder but friend, what do you think the ultimate outcome is here?
Libs won’t stop until Russia either balkanizes into a shattered Libya-style failed state that the West can gobble up piecemeal under the guise of helping them recover, or the Russian government changes to an explicitly pro-EU one that empties its coffers in a show of newfound solidarity
For the West, there is no world in which Russia will be allowed to exist as a sovereign state. The end goal, full stop, is to plunder it, even if that’s not the stated goal
Nope. Both Russia and the US are fucking imperialistic states.
Thinking that Russia is somehow left inclined is insanity
That’s not what anyone here is claiming. Our critical support is for the Russian Federation’s opposition to US hegemony. No one thinks they are “left” in any way
They’ve literally written horseshoe theory sarcastically. If you are not aware, horseshoe theory is a claim that is far right and far left are quite similar.
Here we have completely different situation where we fucking have 2 nazi states opposing each other. Eventually, they’ll compromise leaving the world in the middle of a catastrophe
I was deliberately referring to the poster quoted in OP who stated:
It was a dunk pointing out that they’re arguing against themselves but don’t realize due to American exceptionalism. I agree that Russia is not aligned with the left, and personally would like to see the war ended, but to be realistic, Russia will not just leave, especially when they have the upper hand (which it is clear they now do). As a resident of the US, the most I can do to end the war is to call on our government to work towards negotiations, as peace would obviously be the best case for the working class in both countries. However, the US and its allies more broadly would prefer to continue looting Ukraine and to make money for their arms industries, so they aren’t in any hurry, and they will instead insist on that ludicrously unrealistic scenario where Russia just stops for no reason as a means to prolong the war instead without having to say so.