People in this country think they’re the freest in the world. A couple of years ago, a cop was filmed murdering yet another black man. People protested and, all too frequently, cops initiated violence against peaceful protesters. Is that not authoritarian?
Always has been, mate. It’s basically a synonym for “I’m a hypocrite”.
“Authoritarianism” is everywhere, from the natural to the man-made. I obey the very material authority of mother nature here in Alaska by not driving like a jackass in winter when I’m going to work, then I’m forced to obey my shitty bosses in order to get enough of the wealth I make for them back in order to keep a roof over my head and not starve for a week and rinse and repeat while they watch their portfolios soar.
here’s hall-of-fame poster aimixin. he’s in conversation with a libsoc but don’t get hung up on that, the focus of the argument is on the nature of the state and how it reveals the emptiness of the word
Every government is authoritarian. You only consider it not to be “authoritarian” when you
support its use of authority. Anarchism is authoritarian as well, yes
I’ve read up on libertarian socialists. Do you think the anarchists in
Catalonia who had labor camps were not “authoritarian”? Were they
wholesome democratic labor camps?
Every state seeks to preserve itself and so every state will use
authority when it is faced with potential destruction. This is not
inherently a bad thing, it obviously depends on the government in
question, and who is trying to destroy it, and why. People always
justify the use of authoritarian means used by whoever they support, and
then those who are intellectually dishonest pretend that somehow their
use of authority isn’t “authoritarian”.
And obviously anarchism and libertarian socialism exists. I don’t see
how that contradicts with me saying “authoritarian” is a meaningless
buzzword that can always be replaced just with “something I don’t like”.
Is the US “authoritarian” when it bombed Vietnam back into the stone age
and Eisenhower himself said they refused to hold elections because they
knew the US occupiers would only get 20% of the vote? The Vietnam war,
the Afghanistan war, the destruction of Libya, or the US prosecution of
Julian Assange, or the Smith Act Trials, Operation Earnest Voice,
Operation Condor, Operation PBSUCCESS, Operation Ajax, Operation
Mockingbird, etc, etc, were not “authoritarian”?
Maybe you’d agree these things are “authoritarian”, but either way it
proves my point. Plenty of people like to insist the US isn’t
“authoritarian” not because it actually isn’t but because they support
what it does.
If you never desire to leave your cage, you might feel incredibly free.
Liberals who never genuinely try to challenge the authority of the
liberal state they live under have a tendency to believe that there is
no authoritarianism, because they have never once even desired to
challenge that state’s authority. (Yet, ironically, they will always
support the state’s authority when they see it used against those who do
try to challenge it.)
“Libertarian socialism” doesn’t escape this. “Authoritarianism” is a
meaningless buzzword, the only real tangible difference between
“libertarian” socialists and ordinary socialists is that “libertarian”
socialists prefer a higher level of decentralization. But
decentralization in no way inherently entails a lack of authoritarian
means, as they’ve always used them in practice to enforce their system.
part two:
You aren’t paying attention. Democracy is authoritarian. It is the
means by which the democratic will of the people express its authority,
by means of force. What happens if someone picks up a gun and tries to
oppose the democratic consensus? Do you just sit by and let the
democracy be destroyed? No, the democratic state uses its own authority
to oppress the opposition.
There is no such thing as a distinction between “democracy” and
“authoritarian”. It’s a meaningless buzzword. The opposite of a
democracy is an autocracy or an oligarchy, not “authoritarian”. That’s
just something westerners fling at other people’s democracies which they
don’t like for daring to vote for something against US interests and
want to see them blown up and millions killed and displaced.
When the verdict of the man who murdered George Floyd was being read, the Governor of Minnesota mobilized thousands of national guard troops and ordered them to occupy Minneapolis. There were thousands of armed soldiers, on foot and in armored vehicles, staged throughout the city. The implicit threat was that if Chauvin was acquitted and we tried to enact justice anyway we’d be machine gunned in the street for opposing a murderous white supremacist.
For those few days Minneapolis was the most heavily occupied city in the world.
People in this country think they’re the freest in the world. A couple of years ago, a cop was filmed murdering yet another black man. People protested and, all too frequently, cops initiated violence against peaceful protesters. Is that not authoritarian?
Its considered authoritarian for the state to take housing and distribute it to the people.
Its not considered authoritarian for banks to kick people out of their home.
I’m starting to think this “authoritarian” word is bullshit.
Always has been, mate. It’s basically a synonym for “I’m a hypocrite”.
“Authoritarianism” is everywhere, from the natural to the man-made. I obey the very material authority of mother nature here in Alaska by not driving like a jackass in winter when I’m going to work, then I’m forced to obey my shitty bosses in order to get enough of the wealth I make for them back in order to keep a roof over my head and not starve for a week and rinse and repeat while they watch their portfolios soar.
Here’s Engel’s little blurb on Authority too if you want to read more.
Say it again louder for the people in the back!
based
here’s hall-of-fame poster aimixin. he’s in conversation with a libsoc but don’t get hung up on that, the focus of the argument is on the nature of the state and how it reveals the emptiness of the word
part two:
When the verdict of the man who murdered George Floyd was being read, the Governor of Minnesota mobilized thousands of national guard troops and ordered them to occupy Minneapolis. There were thousands of armed soldiers, on foot and in armored vehicles, staged throughout the city. The implicit threat was that if Chauvin was acquitted and we tried to enact justice anyway we’d be machine gunned in the street for opposing a murderous white supremacist.
For those few days Minneapolis was the most heavily occupied city in the world.