How do you do it?

I stopped participating in a group chat with some long-time friends about a year ago, mostly due in part to the exhausting conversations over politics. Ironically, after Trump was shot, the group decided to silo the conversations into two groups, one for non-politics, and one for politics, and pinged me. We’re that kind of group where we go long periods of time not seeing each other in person due to life and kids, but it was nice to have them reach out.

But oh, that politics channel has not changed. Meanwhile, my worldview has shifted dramatically to the left of theirs (and beyond, really). The spectrum is:

  • Center Leaning Republican (a Rogan, Pool, Peterson enjoyer),
  • A Center leaning Dem
  • A Vote Blue Democrat (they are also the only queer person in our group)
  • A 3rd Party guy (basically a libertarian but refuses to adopt a label, and doesn’t vote, but also a Peterson enjoyer, rabid anticommunist, they always know a guy, or have a family member, you know what I mean).
  • All white, all male

Something interesting happened when I returned, though. The topic that started this isn’t relevant, but it prompted the Center Dem friend to ask me where I get my views from. I sat on that question for an evening and then just wrote out a summary of the Marxist-Leninists view on capitalism and imperialism, without ever using “capitalism” or “imperialism”, without referencing Marx or Lenin.

It was long, but, his response was, basically, “Ok, that makes a lot of sense, actually.” I then told him that Marx and Lenin would be happy to know you agree because that’s their analysis in my own words, as I understand it.

Usually after bringing up someone like Marx, I’ll get dunked on with a barrage of anticommunist brainrot, but that didn’t happen this time.

So it got me thinking about the title of this post. How do you talk to your lib friends about their distorted world view?

  • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.mlEnglish
    5·
    4 months ago

    My close friends that I see in person often were already open minded about criticizing capitalism (to an extent) but not open to the idea of alternative til a few months after I began opening up to them political and developing my own views. I wouldn’t call either of them communist but I would call both of them anticapitalists atleast. For them it just took open non-hostile discussion, some light reading, and occasionally one of my rants over the course of a few months to get them where they are.

    My online friends who I play DND with however (more reflective of your experience) I have no idea. There is one of them I have been able to have genuinely good discussions bc he actually follows and understands (mostly) world events as they happen but he is not even left. His father is petit bourgeois and while he sees the flaws of the system he genuinely believes that he can work within it to provide for his family. I think it will take him eventually getting fucked by bigger capitalists to actually consider an alternative. I won’t change him with words.

    What I am getting at here is primarily that for a lot of people there isn’t much you can do. Put your views out there and make them known. Be vocal about your positions and why you have them but don’t EXPECT change.

    • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      1·
      4 months ago

      My close friends that I see in person often were already open minded about criticizing capitalism (to an extent) but not open to the idea of alternative til a few months after I began opening up to them political and developing my own views. I wouldn’t call either of them communist but I would call both of them anticapitalists atleast. For them it just took open non-hostile discussion, some light reading, and occasionally one of my rants over the course of a few months to get them where they are.

      Yeah, I would say that some of my close friends are definitely anticapitalists, and the hard part is most of them are rife with anti-communist sentiment. It’s all very bog-standard anti-communist stuff, though.

      What I am getting at here is primarily that for a lot of people there isn’t much you can do. Put your views out there and make them known. Be vocal about your positions and why you have them but don’t EXPECT change.

      Yeah, I’m definitely taking a different approach this time around when it comes to these conversations. The more deeply anti-communist friend of mine is also very keen on “debate”, and I think my best bet (because I doubt I can change how he feels) is to use that energy to at least explore my own ideas while trying not to take the position that I’m “correct” or that he is “incorrect”. Being able to keep the conversation inquisitive and not combative will at least generate a lot of information that the others in the chat can digest and draw their own conclusions from.