My mother in law has no problem with M/M but complains about lesbians (says it’s disgusting) - I then assumed homophobes are bothered more about gays of their own gender in general.
That’s fair, most people who are loudly anti-gay tend to be male. Mostly because the “loudly anti-gay” group tends to overlap significantly with the "anti-women- group.
I also see a lot of anti-lesbian stuff from women. Tbh, I see more of it in my own personal life than I do anti-gay men, but that’s just my experience, I don’t know if that’s also the reality (I imagine it varies by area/culture too).
And yeah I agree with your theory that people seem more bothered about same-sex relations for their own sex.
Lesbians have been fetishized because it feeds into a FFM threesome fantasy. The entire setup is just aimed at straight men who are single or unhappy with their marriage. All too often when F/F relationships are portrayed like this, when the women are out together they are almost always flirty with other guys they meet, like they are trying to plant the seed that one lucky guy could be taken home with them.
While I certainly agree the audience was more than ready for M/M and bisexual male characters, we didn’t see it nearly as much because the bigots in charge didn’t fetishize it, and didn’t want it front and center even as a B story because it was going to cause backlash, from themselves and other bigots like them.
I do not agree that this was about audience approval.
I pointed out to others in a Garak thread that before Garak was introduced (and before these two episodes), we already had Roy’s gay son on Wings who intentionally defied all stereotypes, the gay male couple who owned the B&B in Northern Exposure and the reveal that the town’s founders were lovers, not sisters, plus more than one episode with a gay man as positive characters in L.A. law and Roseanne. If you want to push it back further, you had Billy Crystal’s character in Soap who did have stereotypical mannerisms, but they were really downplayed and he was one of the only decent members of his family.
The audience was ready for gay male characters on a show that already celebrated diversity. Berman was just a bigot.
F/F was weirdly more palatable to audiences for decades before M/M.
It kind of still is. Most people who oppose “teh gays” mostly talk about male-male…
My mother in law has no problem with M/M but complains about lesbians (says it’s disgusting) - I then assumed homophobes are bothered more about gays of their own gender in general.
That’s fair, most people who are loudly anti-gay tend to be male. Mostly because the “loudly anti-gay” group tends to overlap significantly with the "anti-women- group.
A lot.of anti-gay males are afraid of being treated the way the cis guys treat women as just a sexual object.
I also see a lot of anti-lesbian stuff from women. Tbh, I see more of it in my own personal life than I do anti-gay men, but that’s just my experience, I don’t know if that’s also the reality (I imagine it varies by area/culture too).
And yeah I agree with your theory that people seem more bothered about same-sex relations for their own sex.
I’m curious. What area / culture are you in?
I live in a relatively impoverished area in the north east of England, although I’m originally from India
“WE DON’T WANT ‘MEN’ IN THE WOMEN’S BATHROOM”
And FTM transpeople? You’re cool with them using the men’s bathroom?
“Eff te wat? What are you on about?”
The JK brand of transphobes don’t even believe they exist as they think trans = “men role-playing in order to abuse women”
Lesbians have been fetishized because it feeds into a FFM threesome fantasy. The entire setup is just aimed at straight men who are single or unhappy with their marriage. All too often when F/F relationships are portrayed like this, when the women are out together they are almost always flirty with other guys they meet, like they are trying to plant the seed that one lucky guy could be taken home with them.
While I certainly agree the audience was more than ready for M/M and bisexual male characters, we didn’t see it nearly as much because the bigots in charge didn’t fetishize it, and didn’t want it front and center even as a B story because it was going to cause backlash, from themselves and other bigots like them.
“Yeah but I can convert her" mentality is way more powerful than logic.
I do not agree that this was about audience approval.
I pointed out to others in a Garak thread that before Garak was introduced (and before these two episodes), we already had Roy’s gay son on Wings who intentionally defied all stereotypes, the gay male couple who owned the B&B in Northern Exposure and the reveal that the town’s founders were lovers, not sisters, plus more than one episode with a gay man as positive characters in L.A. law and Roseanne. If you want to push it back further, you had Billy Crystal’s character in Soap who did have stereotypical mannerisms, but they were really downplayed and he was one of the only decent members of his family.
The audience was ready for gay male characters on a show that already celebrated diversity. Berman was just a bigot.