Nerfing flame weapons then releasing a war bond with only flame weapons has to be the worst marketing move ever.
Even if the nerfing is totally fine, the messaging is awful, hey we just made this stuff worse come buy it from us now.
It’s not marketing that they fail, it’s communication. They should tell ahead of time which weapons are on their watch list, so it doesn’t seem like it falls from nowhere.
I’m convinced the conversation went something like this:
“Hey we made these primary and secondary weapons that are mini flamethrowers, they don’t shoot as far but they’re still pretty cool, right?!”
“Cool, so you can kill a Charger with your pistol now?”
“Oh shit… Guess we’ll just nerf all fire damage then and say we’re doing it for ‘realisim’.”
“Sounds good, Chief.”
Yeah, i think thats exactly what happened.
Let us kill chargers for gods sake, its not like they don’t put 12 of them out at the same time now… they are not exactly rare
Perhaps they need to stop nerfing stuff nobody asked to get nerfed. The flamethrower was fun to use, but it was also necessary because of the broken amount of charger spawns that made it a vital weapon in battling these.
It’s not a competitive game, there should be no need to nerf stuff unless it’s broken beyond comprehension. In this case the charger spawns were utterly broken in many difficulties and missions, but instead they chose to “fix” the weapon instead of the spawns.
It’s not a competitive game, so why do people feel the need to play the highest difficulty if they can’t deal with an enemy you learn in d4 mission?
There is no broken amount of chargers. There are people incapable of dealing with them, which makes situations degenerate into chaos, which is exactly the point of this kind of enemy.
This is not a difficulty level thing, it’s a broken feature thing.
It also wasn’t consistent every mission. I did level 9 all the time and sometimes it was easy as fuck with next to no spawns, and other missions we had 10+ chargers (I’m not kidding) and bile titans on top at the same time during extraction.
It was physically not possible that the four of us could spawn in enough anti-heavy weapons to deal with all of them while trying to stick around the extraction area. Even despite the fact that we were all equipped to deal with these enemy types.
Which is when it stops being a skill issue and just becomes a broken game issue. Devs have already changed how enemy spawns work in this game multiple times, and admitted that it hasn’t worked as it should’ve before.
Tentacles make it worse. I’ve just been juggled by them for like 30 seconds or more at a time. If you get hit by one and ragdoll into another, you just bounce around until the game decides you’re allowed to play it again.
When those things spawn on the extract, it gets 10x more difficult, even on top of bile titans and chargers.
Different things will affect your feeling : different missions have different enemy distribution for one, and biome and modifiers will make a massive difference in difficulty. I am also comfident sometimes MO planets have increased difficulty too.
And again, you don’t need anti heavy to kill a charger. Shoot the yellow part of the tail and even a primary can do it.
What you’re telling me here is that you weren’t coordinated with your team and not even trying to help eachother. Or that you were all clueless about how to kill a charger without AT weaponry.
If this is really the clueless part, this is very sad tbh.
No need to explain the game to me. Me and my team got our fair share of hours in it.
I also remember the time where high difficulty missions didn’t have dozens of behemoth chargers and bile titans spawn literally on top of me at the extraction zone.
But feel free to keep excusing bad game design that even the devs admitted isn’t enjoyable nor working as intended, while they keep nerfing fun weapons in their non-competitive game instead.
I’m confident from your replies that you don’t really play higher than 6 since you don’t really seem to understand how the game is broken. No matter how much anti tank is brought in there is sometimes just too much, even if everything dies in one or two shots like it’s supposed to. I’ve had a bile titan tank 6-7 rockets from my rocket sentry before it beelined straight to my turret 80 meters away, my buddy’s spear, my 110 eagle rocket pod strike, a DIRECT hit from an OPS shell and the explosion right under it, several AC and grenade pistol rounds from me and another spear from my buddy. So in total I used 3 strategems that were highly effective against that enemy type and 1 (my AC) that is a little effective but good enough to finish one off, plus two spear rockets and whatever else damaged it.
There were 2 titans and about 5 behemoth chargers running around during that too.
Shoot the yellow part with your primary
Tell me how I know you don’t play the game.
I don’t believe you can sit there and tell me the game isn’t broken.
You are 4 in a team. A titan is killed with 1 precision strike. I’ve been in the situations you describe. A charger can only charge one person at a time. And one person can dance with 3 chargers for quite some time.
Sometimes a situation goes crazy. That’s the whole point of high difficulty. If you don’t want that, if you want the game to be a cakewalk, why do you play high difficulty?
Considering you just ignored all the issues I listed and instead said it’s just a skill issue after I pointed out that there’s too much spawning because patrols are bugged (confirmed by AH), and that I described a common situation where bugged enemies do not die after taking enough ordnance to kill 3+ of that enemy, I’m positive you’re either a moron or trolling. Have a good day. Another one blocked.
Are you really arguing that you need overpowered weapons because the game is buggy?
Man you were talking about game design two comments ago. Now you’re talking about bugs. Make up your mind.
Large swings of the nerf bat will always be met with equivalent backlash and negative feedback tends to overshadow the positive.
They acknowledged that they should not nerf the fun stuff and proceed carefully with balance going forward, and then deliver this update. On the one hand the nerf to the incendiary breaker is small enough and feels fair, on the other the complete neutering of the flamethrower feels like taking away our toy entirely.
I have to respectfully disagree. I think that the breaker nerf was massive. I don’t find it fair at all. They should have nerfed the outgoing damage rather than make it impossible to actually use as a primary. 4 mags is functionally nothing. My friends run supply backpacks pretty often and I just kept hearing a chorus of “damn, you’re out of ammo again?”
I switched to the Slugger and it’s just a better weapon all-around, even with the changes. The recoil is heavy but the armor pen is choice against everything. Mag size is fine, single reload is great because you can’t fuck that up, and when it hits you feel the punch.
Flamethrower nerf is a huge travesty. Makes me really upset overall. It was the only tool consistently good at clearing chargers.
Same. I’m finding myself constantly out of ammo having to use my secondary a lot and running out of ammo there too, as I wait for a resupply.
They mentioned they mostly do their testing at difficulty 5, which is nothing.
I tuned into the live stream the other day to get the orange armor and it was massively painful watching the devs play the game worse than your friends. Watching them try to deal with chargers by mag dumping them in the head was kind of infuriating. Apparently the “peel the leg” meta is not obvious? They said something about thinking the easiest way to kill a charger was to attack the head, which is for sure not the case.
Some of those shown in that stream were from Playstation, not devs. While there were some devs on, they stated during the stream that there’s devs that play the harder difficulties (7+) and some that solo level 9.
Thing about the charger is right, if you use something like a EAT and are able to headshot it. The Breaker incinerary being nerfed did not gut the gun, but made it more skill intensive in terms of ammo conservation rather than point and mag dump in a given direction.
It was the only tool consistently good at clearing chargers.
I feel like this is maybe the root cause issue more than anything else
It’s also just plain wrong
I enjoy the slugger again, adding back the punchy stun was all I wanted for it, and adjusting the falloff and accuracy to match is a fair compromise to their initial issues with it.
Now you get a real choice of the punisher for light pen damage, and the slugger for medium pen stun but lower damage overall. It makes both of them useful.
I’ve been happy with the update, but I also rarely use the flamethrower or incendiary breaker. I normally play on 7s and my friends that use the incendiary said they are mostly fine in groups, but soloing objectives is harder.
The flamethrower change made chargers harder… But I prefer rocket pods for them anyway.
The nerfs don’t bother me at all, and I like all the things they added.
It seems clear to me though that they need some sort of community beta testing group to vet their changes, and they need to space those changes out better.
The flamethrower nerf is what people are actually mad about, and that ruined a huge release of new enemies and then also the release of the new war bond with fire weapons.
Those all should have been released one a week or something to keep momentum up.
They mentioned they might be making community testing servers. I think that would make all the difference.
It also doesn’t help that they apparently test on level 5 and a lot of us are playing 6-10.
The flamethrower is still bonkers good, even against chargers. The community (really just the main subreddit) is just toxic af, reactive, misinformed, and educated only by what someone else on YT or Twitch tells them.
The takes over there have me legitimately questioning if any of them actually play the game and at what difficulty.
I totally agree that the community has been toxic as of late, but they’re not totally unfounded. If you’re playing diff7 or higher, the plethora of chargers choke flamethrower users. You simply don’t have the space and the time to target the butt of every charger, doubly so if you’re playing with randos.
I only drop on 8+ and I wholly reject your premise. You shouldn’t even be focusing the butt of the charger, the gaps in leg armor are your targets with the flame thrower and they go down almost as fast as they did before last Thursday.
I do agree that the main sub on Reddit is pretty toxic.
It’s okay to be upset, but I think people want to be upset about something, and have been stewing in this too much that they’ve least perspective that this is v a small studio game they paid half the price of a AAA for.
This patch is weird. The nerfs don’t bother me as I will drop the difficulty down or change my loadout depending on how much fun a team of 2 divers wants. I never did hard in Vermintide 2 because of the friendly fire and lack of skill.
What raises an eyebrow are the mission ending bugs. Bug breaches not spawning in the high value asset mission and rockets not launching. Weird disconnects and crashes that were not there pre-patch. I hope we get more stability patches until the next content patch.
Good grief they need to sort out their QA issues.
I’m still playing at least a few dives each day because I’m having fun overall, but the constant surprises with stuff not working as intended makes for a lot of confusion and a reluctance to try things out. Whenever I take a flamethrower there are a ton of spitters who don’t miss, and they seem to be all or nothing.
They really have the feel of the game down, and I actually love the new warbond thematically, but actually using the stuff in game is lackluster.
Commando has been out for a month and it still doesn’t operate like the EAT with how it’s disposable.
The cookout though is stellar. Knockbacks the choppy chop, commie devs, and shieldy boys.
I generally play on difficulty 6. It felt the right balance of difficulty, sample rewards, and enjoyment, for me.
I’ve been playing since release, so I’m a pretty high level now, and difficulty 6 was just starting to feel a bit too easy, and I was considering bumping up to level 7 as my standard difficulty.
Then this update came out, and I’m lucky to make it out of a level 6 alive! It’s very teammate dependent and I find the quality of teammates has significantly degraded. That could be due to a higher percentage of school kids playing vs adults I guess, as it’s the summer holidays, but it doesn’t make it any less annoying.
Basically, people need to communicate more and remember it’s a coop game. Ping the Bile Titans, Chargers, Impalers, there’s others on the team that can help. Tagging where you’re going on the map helps everyone coordinate. Microphones are not required, I use mine only when an in-game communication method isn’t available or I’m being swarmed but still need to say something, probably about once every two games.
I don’t enjoy the missions as much as I did before the update, and I think a lot of the blame rests on Arrowhead’s shoulders but the user-base also needs to step up and learn to cooperate more in this cooperative game. Don’t one-man-army a bile titan, don’t ignore teammates that have found a bunker door, work together to increase your odds of survival, success, super credits, samples, and ultimately, fun.
Old man rant over
I don’t play much public games, I play with some friends, and I felt the opposite. Usually playing lvl6 against bots, lvl7 against bugs. Lvl7 bugs felt like a cakewalk since the new patch.
But it depends on the planet too. Some planets are hells. Either because of the climate or because of enemy distribution.
The further out my perspective is, the harder for me it is to see this as a “long-term” game, or GAAS. The game play loop is very shallow, as it’s a repetitive grind to unlock just weapons, abilities, or “unseen” buffs with timers or health or ammo. The meat of the game is the narratives within missions which the community can create. Nerfing effective weapons makes it harder to create these narratives. We’re supposed to be bumbling, idiot, expendable soldiers that prevail against the odds, but the odds continue getting harder for us arbitrarily based on %s the devs see in usage and kill counters. If a weapon overperforms, give us more enemies, don’t decrease its effectiveness. The whole point of the game is to kill en masse. Give us more masse, then tune the underperforming weapons and call-ins as needed.
The community had wild storylines going and carried so much of the launch hype based solely on diving with your friends, blowing each other up, and doing cool shit. If you take away what allows us to do cool shit, then there isn’t much else left to play with.
Well, I think the performance issues were definitely understated. I know the patch notes said “we have stability issues in difficulty 10” but we went for it anyway, and it feels like not a single match goes by without at least one person disconnecting or crashing.
Additionally it makes zero sense to have nerfed fire and then put out an all fire-based battle pass. That was going to lose them points. It’s not like the flamethrower was particularly good at anything besides burning bugs to a crisp, and now none of it is good for anything.
I haven’t played since the PSN fiasco…what’s going on now?
Bruh, the article your commenting on is an explanation of what’s going on since the PSN fiasco, you could just read it, since you opened the post anyways.
However, with that being said, new patch hit and added a bunch of content and balance changes. Discussion of the new content has largely been sidelined by people complaining about the balance changes. Players are frustrated that a meta develops, and then the devs nerf that meta into oblivion because they are trying to prevent “one-size-fits-all” solutions. Another complaint is that it takes far too long to kill enemies unless you are using the exact tool the devs intend you to use. Devs publicly agree that time to kill is excessive at the moment, but don’t believe the solution is just to buff all weapons. They promise to continue working on the balancing to find a happy medium.
That’s the gist of it based on OPs post at any rate.
Thanks lol
I wasn’t sure about the longer term background issues simmering under the surface
Have they got rid of the rootkit yet?
Play it on Linux and you don’t have to deal with that part.
https://www.protondb.com/app/553850/
(Easy Anti Cheat is also a kernel level anticheat, but disables those bits when used on Linux.)
I’ve been casually enjoying the update. The nerf to the incindiary breaker was unexpected, but as a guy with an ammo pack, it didn’t matter much.
Mega hives and difficulty 10 in general are hectic and hilarious. Honestly it feels like it’s been awhile since the reinforcement stock dropped below 10 for me. Actually having a challenge after players have gotten good is refreshing.
The flame nerf is understandable considering they released a primary and secondary flame launcher. Imagine a secondary just melting charger in seconds. That’s what would have happened had they not changed the flames to glance off heavier armors.
One of my friends who got back into the game specifically for this update has gone straight into being a fire elemental. Believe me when I say that he doesn’t care even a little about flames only burn soft bits. Being near him is hard though as the floor is always lava.
The nerfs suck, but damn had the update been so buggy.
Mission objectives fail to work correctly pretty regularly now.
I’ve played maybe 15 rounds since the update, but only found one mission-related bug. We completed both sub-objectives for an ICBM, and it told us that we could extract without launching the missile. And given we had 2 reinforcements left, we sure weren’t looking a gift horse in the mouth.
I’ve had a few that were just wack. One wouldn’t let us drop the soil survey strategem.
On another, we were supposed to activate a pump, but the controls wouldn’t let you interact with them. Then later during that mission, the game freaked out and instantly teleported us from the middle of a battle with bugs back onto the destroyer. We were just stuck up there. The hellpods were dark.
The most common complaint is that the co-op game is going around in circles, as Arrowhead nerfs the current meta into the dirt while making the game much harder for longtime players.
I have a solution for that :
GIT.GOOD.
