• frezik@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    3 months ago

    Sodium ion batteries on the market right now are about the same weight density as lithium poly batteries from a few years ago. It takes a few years for a newly manufactured battery to find its way into actual EV models. That means the newer sodium batteries have about the same performance as batteries in EVs right now. They’re also cheaper and are made of more abundant materials.

    Don’t write off sodium batts in cars too quickly.

    • ColeSloth
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      3 months ago

      The factory making these is still like 6 years out. The ones on market are like 65% energy dense, and lithium tech has only gained a few percent a year, so I don’t know where you’re getting your thoughts from. For EV’S, sodium ion is going to be a far shot behind solid state. By the time sodium could catch up to being close to today’s lithium batts, solid state will be far cheaper and have a huge power density advantage.

      • frezik@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        3 months ago

        Volkswagen id4 today has a battery of 168 wh/kg:

        https://www.batterydesign.net/vw-id-4-82kwh-battery/

        CATL launched a 160 wh/kg sodium battery in 2021:

        https://www.catl.com/en/news/665.html

        They are already gearing up for production of 200 wh/kg sodium batteries, and in talks with automakers about it:

        https://www.electrive.com/2024/05/06/catl-gears-up-for-next-gen-sibs-and-global-licensing/

        If the id4 on sale now has enough range for you, then a sodium ion version will give the same while being cheaper and having fewer fire concerns. Solid state lithium will be nice, but expect them in more expensive models.

        • ColeSloth
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 months ago

          Even if they manage to “gear up” and make it to 200 wh/kg, that’s years away and TODAY lithium EV batts are hitting 270 wh/kg. 35% more energy dense.

          • frezik@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            And you’ll spend more money to get that. Not every EV needs the most capacity out there.

            • ColeSloth
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              3 months ago

              If your ev isn’t good enough for a road trip, that means for like 90% of you, you have to own another vehicle.

              • frezik@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                I have such an ev right now that’s in line with the numbers we’re talking about here. It’s good enough for a road trip. We’re trying to sell our only ICE car now because we’re not using it.

        • ColeSloth
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 months ago

          I double checked. It looks like about 5% per year.

            • frezik@midwest.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              3 months ago

              It’s actually been about 8% in recent years, but historically 5%. We’ll see which one holds, but either compounds to doubling capacity in shorter time than you might think.

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                yeah, you would expect it to slow down over time, given the ever encroaching theoretical limits of technology, but obviously that depends on how far that is from here. Otherwise you generally expect to see an increase likely proportional to the amount of sold product (more R&D funding) as well as a function of competition, which is pretty high right now.