The most annoying thing is that the peace accords back then where known to be derailed by the USA and UK, like it was 100% not a secret, absolutely public knowledge if you actually cared about the actual geopolitical region and were paying attention to what was going on outside general news media. Academics were saying the same as well.
The Western media utterly, and seemingly in conjunction decided to under report this to well, mostly to Americans. So your average Americans were kept in the dark of how instrumental they were in escalating this war. And painted anyone who stated actual reality as merely Putin puppets. The manipulation was strong since it seems to have worked wonders.
I fail to see how the USA and by extension the UK are any different when playing the disinformation and misinformation game. Everyone blames everyone else and claims they do not do any of it.
Nuland is just a war criminal but one that has the approval of the American military and political complex. I trust people have listensed to the leaked phone call from years ago where she cherry picks Ukrainian politicians to exalt into office? Go democracy.
Watched the whole interview. This person seem to still live up in the reagan anti-communist rhetoric. She reminds me of these teachers who vent their frustrations on kids and act authoritarian on them as to compensate the lack of something.
Watched the whole interview. This person seem to still live up in the reagan anti-communist rhetoric.
Nuland started her carrer under Bill Clinton.
they started working before that and they are married to robert kagan
Fair, though Kagan also left the GOP to endorse Hilary. One big incestuous murder family! Slay! 💅
Surprised pikachu What? Ukraine did not trust Russia to not attack them again, after being attacked by Russia?
Russia has a trust-problem. If they are serious about wanting peace they should work on it.
what does this reply have to do with the article or the admission contained therein besides having vaguely associated topic metadata tags, you bot?
They are working on it by eliminating the fighting capacity of the AFU. At this point the only peace Ukraine will see is one where it unconditionally surrenders.
I’m sure the tens of thousand of dead russian troops and all those displaced russian families prefer that to just gaining trust with others, resulting in the end of support for Ukraine and a quick surrender. Apparently getting people killed is better than doing everything you can to end end the conflict.
Apparently getting people killed is better than doing everything you can to end end the conflict.
Apparently in the mind of the west, Ukraine and Zelensky in particular it is…
Those talking points don’t feel humiliating to say in the context of the interview you’re replying under?
Do you have human feelings?
Russia literally did everything possible to try and avoid this conflict for 8 years prior. Ending the conflict without achieving the objectives would be sheer idiocy as anybody who is not a complete imbecile would understand.
Everything except building trust, it seems.
And who said anything about not achieving objectives? Unless the objective is to get people, both Russians and Ukrainians killed, I guess.
Building trust from whom, pretty much everybody outside west is on Russia’s side:
- https://ecfr.eu/publication/united-west-divided-from-the-rest-global-public-opinion-one-year-into-russias-war-on-ukraine/
- https://usrussiaaccord.org/acura-viewpoint-krishen-mehta-the-ukraine-war-viewed-from-the-global-south/
- https://archive.is/2023.02.23-211202/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/02/23/world/russia-ukraine-geopolitics.html
- https://archive.ph/4kbWG
- https://www.eiu.com/n/russias-pockets-of-support-are-growing-in-the-developing-world/
The global majority understands why this war happened and the role the west played in creating the conditions for the war, as well as the role it plays in perpetuating it today.
The objective is to ensure that Ukraine never becomes a threat to Russia and that NATO expansion stops. that’s the objective that is being achieved.
Quite a lot of non-western countries on that list, including the global south.
And yet as links I provided clearly show vast majority of the global south supports Russia. You keep on coping though.
that NATO expansion stops. that’s the objective that is being achieved.
Remind me again how many member states NATO had before the invasion, and how many it has now?
The question is which states, but having no clue regarding the subject you’re opining on it’s not surprising that you wouldn’t understand that. Maybe if you spent your time actually learning things instead of trolling then you’d understand the strategic importance of Ukraine. Maybe go read up on WW2 sometime and see which path the nazis took to Russia then.
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Sorry @yogthos@lemmy.ml, but I’m with @twinnie@feddit.uk on this one.
He clearly intellectually bested you with his superior, meritocratic, totally sound and valid argument of you being a Russian bot.
Yeah, sure NATO expanded altruistically to protect Russia’s neighbours. Imagine actually believing that.
Russia literally did everything possible to try and avoid this conflict for 8 years prior.
War is a business for everyone not just for the US. World leaders seek money and wealth and war grants it
The difference is that the military industrial complex in the west is privately owned, which creates the perverse incentive for profit from war. Meanwhile, Russian military industry is predominantly state owned and operating it is a cost for the state.
cost for the s̶t̶a̶t̶e̶ people
Rich people get richer peasants get poorer, i don’t see much difference.
The difference is pretty clear from the number of wars US and Russia have been involved in actually.
Although true. The root is that no super power likes another super power or its proxies on their borders. Russia does not and stated as such for decades. Hell, China literally helps fund the NK government and puts up with it, so it does not have SK, and its American bases on its south border. The USA put an embargo on Cuba for over 60 years because they put Russian weapons 90kms from Florida and Cuba would not capitulate. So much for the Cubans and the USA’s hypocrisy to memory hole this fact.
Yet somehow many Americans are so blind to not understand that Russia does not want Ukraine as an USA puppet next to them, which they would be. They see it as a clear and present danger --whether others see it or care, does not matter-- just like how the USA saw Cuba. I think we can all agree that Putin is a despot but to not see and understand of just how obvious Super power Geopolitics works or only see the one side of the issue because it is convinient is quite the statement on USA propaganda and the ongoing push for expanding of the Monroe Doctrine as status quo. Operation Condor comes to mind.
Super powers actually care little about smaller countries if they so not fit or push their specific geopolitical interests. No exceptions. Despite the real loses of human life, to the American government the Russia/Ukraine conflict is a but proxy war meant to weaken Russia for its own geopolitical goals. Some politicians stated as such already, despite the previous humanitarian PR. Calling any of this so-called Russia propanda as a way of side stepping by some, does not make it any less correct. Sadly.
Really, the takeaway here is: “who gives a shit?”
When they say “undermined peace talks” they mean “supported Ukraine so they had an option other than unconditional surrender.”
We’re supposed to believe that after Putin got what he wanted in 2014 that he’ll just stop after he gets what he wants this time?
No.
Fuck Russia, fuck Putin, and fuck these bootlickers trying to frame Russia as anything other than authoritarian.
Who is Nuland? Haven’t heard of this guy before now
Nuland is the architect of the 2014 coup in Ukraine
Maybe you should… She’s been a high ranking figure of the US foreign policy since the mid 90s.
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I guess nobody ever accused libs of being smart or original.
Agreed, and neither are fascists.
Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realize you were an open fascist. Usually libs try to hide that.
Zinger! 🙄
Seriously tho get me a job, i would be way less obvious about it.
Coming from a troll who just keeps regurgitating the same line like a bot.
Give me new material to troll you about and I’ll come up with new material too.
You did get new material which is a fresh interview that Nuland gave. The only thing old here is your childish reaction when faced with facts that don’t fit your infantile world view.
says the shill for a country that spends orders of magnitude more on propaganda and bots
Compare the variety of things I comment on to the variety you do and ask yourself “who’s the shill?”
I’m just some dude 🤷♂️
Well, considering we’re replying to you being an obvious shill pushing the propaganda line that ‘anyone who provides any information uncomfortable to my paymasters is a shill so don’t listen to them’ I would say that it’s pretty obvious to anyone that you are the shill.
“NO U!”
-you
Okay?
You accused someone of being a shill and I pointed out how much more likely (a lot) it is that you are a literal shill.
Congratulations on your toddler-esque ability to identify what was said. Thoughts?
I love that you continue to argue with someone that clearly doesn’t give a fuck what you think. In two threads no less. Anyway, see ya!
Projection. Why would I care what you think? Do you care what I think? Is that why YOU’RE continuing to engage?
I’m replying to you because you’re a dumb piece of shit and you shouldn’t be allowed to troll an otherwise worthwhile discussion without being made to look like what you are. And good news: you look like a dumb piece of shit!
