I wear a respirator while welding, but it’s only really a hobby for me so far. But now I’m curious, which filters actually catch manganese?
I’m usually worried about accounting zinc (on galvanized steel), because it can make you ill for a couple days, unless you drink a glass of safety milk.
I know you said you’re just a hobbyist, but a positive air pressure respirator is just the way to go when you’re a welder. It’s basically an over the head setup that works like those old hazmat suits you’d see in movies. It’s got a fan or something blowing in slightly higher pressure air, so none of the air outside can get in as the air is always moving out due to the difference in pressure. What it means is that ALL particulates, gasses, and whatever else you don’t want to breathe have no way to get to you unless it somehow gets into whatever is supplying your air.
They make fanny pack sized units with batteries that are mobile, which works for me as I’ve had to go down in ships and up on scissor lifts to do welding before. I believe they also make slightly bulkier stationary setups that are significantly cheaper but often require other equipment (eg. Specialized compressor) to function. The all in one setup i got is quite expensive (about $2k new) but I managed to find it for quite a bit cheaper used on ebay. I’m comfortable doing this as I’ve been a welder for 15 years and have experience with quite a few different PAPR systems and am confident in my ability to troubleshoot any problems. If you’re completely relying on something like this for safety without really knowing how it works, I’d recommend definitely getting something that comes with a warranty. The parts can be finicky, delicate, and expensive.
I’d love a PAPR system, but I’m mostly just plug welding body panels on project cars once in a while. I spent a little extra on the welding machine (buy once cry once), but it’s still 1/2 the price of a PAPR.
They look super nice for switching between welding and grinding though. If I was doing it more than a couple hours a week (if that) I’d start saving for one for sure.
I have literally never seen a welding mask with either a built-in respirator or enough room in front of the mouth/nose to accommodate a separate one. Do such things even exist?
Are you serious? PAPR systems have been around forever. I’ve seen old setups that are fitted to use pressurized air from compressors. Just don’t forget to trap the line or you’re gonna get real oily and moist real fast.
Okay, look, I admit it: I own a welder, but I’m not a welder. My experience shopping for welding masks is limited to places like Harbor Freight and Amazon.com, and the notion of searching for “welding respirator” or “welding PAPR” instead of “welding mask” never crossed my mind until reading this thread.
First tip: we call them “hoods”. As in “drop the hood and get to welding”
A welding mask to me is one of those handheld jobbies my instructor used to use back in welding school. Think clipboard on a stick with a very dark piece of glass over a cutout in the middle.
Old “welding hoods” are literally that. A big leather hood that goes over your whole head with a little fixture to hold the welding lens over your face like snow goggles. They still make this style today for real heavy welding applications
Just looked it up and N95-P100 masks/respirators cover most exposure that welding should create. I’m a hobbyist welder, but wear a P100 respirator 95% if the time (100% indoors).
From NIOSH:
RESPIRATOR RECOMMENDATIONS
NIOSH
Up to 10 mg/m3:
(APF = 10) Any particulate respirator equipped with an N95, R95, or P95 filter (including N95, R95, and P95 filtering facepieces) except quarter-mask respirators. The following filters may also be used: N99, R99, P99, N100, R100, P100. Click here for information on selection of N, R, or P filters.
(APF = 10) Any supplied-air respirator
Up to 25 mg/m3:
(APF = 25) Any supplied-air respirator operated in a continuous-flow mode
(APF = 25) Any powered, air-purifying respirator with a high-efficiency particulate filter.
Up to 50 mg/m3:
(APF = 50) Any air-purifying, full-facepiece respirator with an N100, R100, or P100 filter. Click here for information on selection of N, R, or P filters.
(APF = 50) Any supplied-air respirator that has a tight-fitting facepiece and is operated in a continuous-flow mode
(APF = 50) Any powered, air-purifying respirator with a tight-fitting facepiece and a high-efficiency particulate filter
(APF = 50) Any self-contained breathing apparatus with a full facepiece
(APF = 50) Any supplied-air respirator with a full facepiece
Up to 500 mg/m3:
(APF = 1000) Any supplied-air respirator operated in a pressure-demand or other positive-pressure mode
Emergency or planned entry into unknown concentrations or IDLH conditions:
(APF = 10,000) Any self-contained breathing apparatus that has a full facepiece and is operated in a pressure-demand or other positive-pressure mode
(APF = 10,000) Any supplied-air respirator that has a full facepiece and is operated in a pressure-demand or other positive-pressure mode in combination with an auxiliary self-contained positive-pressure breathing apparatus
Escape:
(APF = 50) Any air-purifying, full-facepiece respirator with an N100, R100, or P100 filter. Click here for information on selection of N, R, or P filters.
Any appropriate escape-type, self-contained breathing apparatus\
Manganese does not split hydrogen from water molecules. I think you might have it mixed up with magnesium, which does but not at a high enough rate to release an explosive amount even if it’s liquid water and solid magnesium.
Sodium and lithium do release enough hydrogen to be explosive and enough heat to ignite it when they are solid in liquid water, but I suspect the gases wouldn’t do that. The density is way lower, and if it does prefer stripping hydrogen from water molecules to just pairing up with the the O2 ones (some reading suggests that this is the case for solid sodium exposed to air), I bet the recently freed hydrogen will take that heat and just join up with the free O2 itself before it has a chance to build up. And the source would also be more spread out, so there wouldn’t be any reason for a high concentration to form even if the hydrogen doesn’t react immediately with O2 in the vicinity.
Not that welding isn’t an explosive risk, but it’s usually due to the tanks used directly by the welding and/or explosive/accelerant materials in the vicinity of the weld.
If someone offers you $80k to weld their fertilizer tank because it’s too full and they want to add an extension, politely decline and consider avoiding the general area until after it explodes.
And give you a higher chance of getting Parkinson’s from the manganese in the welding fumes.
Only if you don’t wear a respirator to filter that shit
Well where the fuck do you think we live? America. Ain’t nobody getting that shit here.
I wear a respirator while welding, but it’s only really a hobby for me so far. But now I’m curious, which filters actually catch manganese?
I’m usually worried about accounting zinc (on galvanized steel), because it can make you ill for a couple days, unless you drink a glass of safety milk.
I know you said you’re just a hobbyist, but a positive air pressure respirator is just the way to go when you’re a welder. It’s basically an over the head setup that works like those old hazmat suits you’d see in movies. It’s got a fan or something blowing in slightly higher pressure air, so none of the air outside can get in as the air is always moving out due to the difference in pressure. What it means is that ALL particulates, gasses, and whatever else you don’t want to breathe have no way to get to you unless it somehow gets into whatever is supplying your air.
They make fanny pack sized units with batteries that are mobile, which works for me as I’ve had to go down in ships and up on scissor lifts to do welding before. I believe they also make slightly bulkier stationary setups that are significantly cheaper but often require other equipment (eg. Specialized compressor) to function. The all in one setup i got is quite expensive (about $2k new) but I managed to find it for quite a bit cheaper used on ebay. I’m comfortable doing this as I’ve been a welder for 15 years and have experience with quite a few different PAPR systems and am confident in my ability to troubleshoot any problems. If you’re completely relying on something like this for safety without really knowing how it works, I’d recommend definitely getting something that comes with a warranty. The parts can be finicky, delicate, and expensive.
I’d love a PAPR system, but I’m mostly just plug welding body panels on project cars once in a while. I spent a little extra on the welding machine (buy once cry once), but it’s still 1/2 the price of a PAPR.
They look super nice for switching between welding and grinding though. If I was doing it more than a couple hours a week (if that) I’d start saving for one for sure.
Good employers will pay for it or provide it, even in the US.
I have literally never seen a welding mask with either a built-in respirator or enough room in front of the mouth/nose to accommodate a separate one. Do such things even exist?
Are you serious? PAPR systems have been around forever. I’ve seen old setups that are fitted to use pressurized air from compressors. Just don’t forget to trap the line or you’re gonna get real oily and moist real fast.
Okay, look, I admit it: I own a welder, but I’m not a welder. My experience shopping for welding masks is limited to places like Harbor Freight and Amazon.com, and the notion of searching for “welding respirator” or “welding PAPR” instead of “welding mask” never crossed my mind until reading this thread.
First tip: we call them “hoods”. As in “drop the hood and get to welding”
A welding mask to me is one of those handheld jobbies my instructor used to use back in welding school. Think clipboard on a stick with a very dark piece of glass over a cutout in the middle.
Old “welding hoods” are literally that. A big leather hood that goes over your whole head with a little fixture to hold the welding lens over your face like snow goggles. They still make this style today for real heavy welding applications
https://www.millerwelds.com/safety/respiratory
Sorry for your condition, must be hard not being able to do a web search :(
Just looked it up and N95-P100 masks/respirators cover most exposure that welding should create. I’m a hobbyist welder, but wear a P100 respirator 95% if the time (100% indoors).
From NIOSH:
I kinda want to know how thick that smoke looks
I think it splits hydrogen off of water molecules too, so if it’s at all humid in there, it might be explosive too.
Manganese does not split hydrogen from water molecules. I think you might have it mixed up with magnesium, which does but not at a high enough rate to release an explosive amount even if it’s liquid water and solid magnesium.
Sodium and lithium do release enough hydrogen to be explosive and enough heat to ignite it when they are solid in liquid water, but I suspect the gases wouldn’t do that. The density is way lower, and if it does prefer stripping hydrogen from water molecules to just pairing up with the the O2 ones (some reading suggests that this is the case for solid sodium exposed to air), I bet the recently freed hydrogen will take that heat and just join up with the free O2 itself before it has a chance to build up. And the source would also be more spread out, so there wouldn’t be any reason for a high concentration to form even if the hydrogen doesn’t react immediately with O2 in the vicinity.
Not that welding isn’t an explosive risk, but it’s usually due to the tanks used directly by the welding and/or explosive/accelerant materials in the vicinity of the weld.
If someone offers you $80k to weld their fertilizer tank because it’s too full and they want to add an extension, politely decline and consider avoiding the general area until after it explodes.
There is no vessel in the known universe I would weld for any amount.
(Mostly because I’m self taught and know that every mm of weld counts on those things).
Just play chess on your free time to balance it oot :^)