• lugal@lemmy.ml
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    3 hours ago

    Is it from Bullshit Jobs? Does anyone know?

    I read alot from him, I would even say he’s part of my journey towards anarchism. I’m a bit surprised to see him quoted in a communist community thought.

    Edit: I looked it up and the quote is from the preface of Bullshit Jobs so I guessed correctly

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      20 hours ago

      Anarchists are right way more often than liberals, and are fellow travelers with other socialists, including communists. Communists & anarchists want largely the same ends; where they tend to disagree is the means.

      • lugal@lemmy.ml
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        13 hours ago

        True, anarchists believe in the unity of ends and means while communists believe in the end that justifies all means

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          13 hours ago

          No. Anarchists believe in the unity of ends and means, and Communists believe you can’t establish Communism through fiat and have to actually build it.

          • lugal@lemmy.ml
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            13 hours ago

            Anarchists believe in building the new in the shell of the old. It’s all about building it instead of hoping for a leader who will do it for us.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              13 hours ago

              Yes and no, Anarchists believe they can do away with the State overnight. Crucially, what Anarchists consider a state and what Marxists consider a state are not the same. Anarchists see states as representations of hierarchy, while Marxists see the state as a tool for class oppression, depending on who is in charge.

              The Communist strategy is not to “wait for a leader,” it’s to build up the productive forces rapidly so that economic democracy can be achieved.

              Have you read Marx, Engels, Lenin? Even if you don’t plan on agreeing with them, I think it would be useful for you to know what Communists actually believe. I can make a short reading list if you want.

              • lugal@lemmy.ml
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                13 hours ago

                Anarchists believe they can do away with the State overnight.

                That’s a common strawman popularized by Engels I have never heard an anarchist say. Anarchists occupy houses, forests and land to try and live their ways. They build parallel structures in the here and now that have the potential to be the thing after the revolution (think of anarchist unions that can coordinate production while now do union stuff or Rojava which built their council structure before they had power).

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  12 hours ago

                  Anarchists occupy houses, forests and land to try and live their ways.

                  Yes, this is what I mean. What you refer to as “building out of the shell of the old,” Marxists would see as trying to abolish the state overnight, as though you can directly achieve Anarchism simply by getting more people to agree with it. It isn’t literally overnight.

                  They build parallel structures in the here and now that have the potential to be the thing after the revolution

                  This is largely the same mechanism Marxists suggest, the entire idea of “Dual Power.”

                  You seem quick to point out what you feel is a strawman against Anarchism, but make no effort to respond to my counter to what I believe to be a strawman against Communists, the “strong leader” idea, or the “ends justify the means” idea. I’d at least appreciate acknowledgement.

    • metaStatic@kbin.earth
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      22 hours ago

      I would be surprised if the majority of people here aren’t Anarchists. The black flag comes in every colour except yellow.

      • lugal@lemmy.ml
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        13 hours ago

        Tbf I’m not active in this community so from what I know, it might be full of anarchist communists reading Kropotkin and Graeber