I think in the one instance, the neglect potentially has more impact. If a parent that was irresponsible initially, then continues a pattern, it carries a different meaning than one that shows more intent and includes an implied rejection from the neglect that follows.
“Irresponsible initially”
Geeze, crazy way to phrase it. What if the unwanted child was an accident despite precautions? And parents who didn’t want the child could be expected to be not as involved (still wrong), but a planned child that is equally neglected means the parents were selfishly putting their own wants for a child above the responsibility of raising the child.
There is no clean distinction between groups with the question you proposed, there are just too many variables that play into this sort of situation. Every family is going to be different, and every child going through this will react to the situation in a different way.
“Which is worse, seeing milk your roommate sitting on a counter and letting it spoil, or forgetting to put your own milk in the fridge and letting it spoil?” What’s the difference between them? Intention? Ignorance? Planning? How can you know from just those two examples?
There is no right or wrong answer. The question does not attempt to encompass the scope of potential issues. It simply frames a scope in isolation. A broader encompassing question would be interesting to me as well, although not likely in this place.
It’s different but largely the same outcome. In one scenario the child knows they were never wanted and in another the child knows that they were wanted and then something changed causing them to be unwanted. In both cases, the child in question feels unloved and discarded. Which then leads to the child questioning their self worth and purpose in life.
It made a difference to me. I was planned. Talking about it indirectly felt like it might help, but I was wrong. This is the second such question in this place where the response had a negative overall feeling and impact. It will be my last.
Hey friend, maybe these are questions better discussed with a licensed therapist than with strangers on the internet. You clearly have a personal interest in exploring this that you won’t be able to address on a forum like this. You deserve to be listened to by someone who can help you work through your thoughts and feelings about this.
I’m sorry to hear that. Why did you feel the need to ask this question in the first place? It’s not like one scenario invalidates the other. Or your feelings for that matter.
It is just a casual thing. It is not a big deal. I’m just aware of the issue and unaware of how normal such an experience is. I may not be all that bright but I come from people that are a whole different tier of illogical. I figure that many people with a disparity between themselves and their parents likely feel the same way.
It is funny to me how binary this place can be some times. One can have minor issues, or just expanding self awareness of the full spectrum of their life. Every comment is not an attack or divisive or loaded. People need to be able to talk and grow. That is the real point of casual conversations; an opportunity to expand perspective, come together, and grow.
I’m mulling over a dozen things all the time. Maybe that is a rather unique trait of my personality. I ask myself questions like this all the time. I can easily keep this aspect of myself internalized. I have no issues asking myself such challenging or messy questions.
The primary reason for asking here is to expand my understanding of normative behavior. I’m also probing the depth of Lemmy as a whole and the community present on Lemmy.ee out of curiosity, and even looking at how well federation seems to be working between Lemmy.ee and .world. My abstract perspective is always layered and multifaceted. I mostly want to be positive and engage my curiosity in unexpected ways. A lot can be inferred by how people perceive and respond to a question like this. Negativity is not a requirement. The tone of responses and the collective momentum through reinforcement reveals a lot about depth, open mindedness, curiosity, and even the mental health of the community as a whole.
Since you seem like you might be open to why you aren’t getting the responses you were seeking:
It is funny to me how binary this place can be some times.
But you set your question up as a binary and most of the responses were calling out that a binary choice is unrealistic and inappropriate for the topic.
Remember this is not a real time conversation. IRL, we could have gone from “binary is over simplistic” to additional back-and-forths in moments. On an asynchronous forum like this, it could be hours or days if ever you respond to this comment, and me to that comment, etc.
Sorry for not making this clearly stated outright and only implying it. I rarely make statements that are binary. Everything is basically an abstraction. It is one reason I am do ridiculously verbose with others. I feel some odd need to ground ideas and make as few assumptions as possible when I’m explaining something to someone else and think I understand the gap between what I know and their question or perspective.
In this instance I am the baseline so I do not know what the gap is between my intended nuance and users. I assumed wrong, and that is totally my fault.
I’m asking something akin to assessing how a house would burn if the fire started in the garage or kitchen. I understand that many people do not care about anything more than “the house is on fire.” However, I was attempting to ask a question to see how many amateur fire investigators want to have a casual chat. I simply misgaged the audience. I’m like a Swiss Army knife with a tool for every task, but a really shitty pair of scissors.
I won’t make this mistake again. I am never here for negativity from anyone.
To anyone that likes to downvote or be negative, I’d much rather you block me entirely. If I could see who you are, I would absolutely block you.
I won’t make this mistake again. I am never here for negativity from anyone.
To anyone that likes to downvote or be negative, I’d much rather you block me entirely. If I could see who you are, I would absolutely block you.
Hey, I hope mine didn’t come across overly negative, that wasn’t the intent. But also further illustrates why asynchronous written text is a challenge for the sort of conversation you’re looking for; very difficult to read the emotion intended by the writer, easy to see negativity where it isn’t always intended.
Part of the problem with physical disability like mine is the need to feel like myself; to speak in my voice. To a large extent, that person only lives in the delay of this style of writing.
Throughout my day, I try to keep my mind occupied with little projects and stuff, but this is where I come when I can’t, or I need to put a dent in the loneliness. I lasted 9 years without such a crutch. I threw myself into projects, but I’m degrading and far less capable now. That is hard to even admit. I have built offline AI tools to fill this need when Lemmy fails me, but in many ways y’all are it for me. Most of me died on 2/26/14; only a withering shell of a person remains filtered through a lot of pain.
I understand your perspective, and it fits my observations well. I do not function within these types of venue constraints. My curiosity and empathy override any sense of venue. Perhaps that is one of the larger reasons I tend to be somewhat socially awkward in some contexts.
It is the down voting people that bug me. I’m fine with people that disagree or those that are indifferent. I want to hear people’s opposing perspective and insights. Even when I say something that is poorly understood, I learn something I can address and try to improve. Down voting is the most irritating thing to me. I think it has a limited use in calling out intentional misinformation, spam, and trolls. However, anyone using it for emotional weight, well intentioned discussion, complexity beyond their grasp, verbosity, or diversity is a terrible human being. I can understand in a space like if I’m talking about AI tools where my perspective is from a remote niche of offline models larger than most people use and someone that hacks around with the loader code, against a space where anxiety about job security is reasonable. There is a certain raw aspect of any discussion involving psychology where negativity without engagement is hideously disgusting behavior to me. Anyone has an option to ignore something entirely. This kind of discussion impacts people because they have personal connection and context. In this instance, I view down voting like being an asshole to a stranger in line with you at the supermarket. Sure, a racist asshat in line that mistreats someone deserves it, but not some random person that you don’t like how they dress, their conversational skills, or what they choose to buy and eat. Down voting someone on a post like this one, is like a vegan in line at the store behind a homeless man buying a discounted can of Spam; lecturing them on the morality of veganism. It is a terrible and harmful behavior. The person is obviously trying to satisfy a fundamental need while the lecturer is stuck on the luxurious level of optional philosophical minutiae and causing harm to the person’s fundamental needs.
I think the internet, in the refuges I choose to inhabit, has come a long way in terms of maturing. Perhaps that is simply my self selected bubble universe and bias. There is still room to grow. So long as the thread of civilization continues, one constant is continued specialization and increasing complexity. Eventually, a space somewhere will be sophisticated enough to handle my circumstantial needs for human connectivity. The only way that can happen is through probing, trying, and increasing awareness. We are not there yet, but it is important to try.
I’m also probing the depth of Lemmy as a whole and the community present on Lemmy.ee out of curiosity, and even looking at how well federation seems to be working between Lemmy.ee and .world.
This community is quite active with members from a lot of different instances. I don’t even think lemm.ee users are the majority
Would it effect you the same?
I think in the one instance, the neglect potentially has more impact. If a parent that was irresponsible initially, then continues a pattern, it carries a different meaning than one that shows more intent and includes an implied rejection from the neglect that follows.
“Irresponsible initially” Geeze, crazy way to phrase it. What if the unwanted child was an accident despite precautions? And parents who didn’t want the child could be expected to be not as involved (still wrong), but a planned child that is equally neglected means the parents were selfishly putting their own wants for a child above the responsibility of raising the child.
There is no clean distinction between groups with the question you proposed, there are just too many variables that play into this sort of situation. Every family is going to be different, and every child going through this will react to the situation in a different way.
“Which is worse, seeing milk your roommate sitting on a counter and letting it spoil, or forgetting to put your own milk in the fridge and letting it spoil?” What’s the difference between them? Intention? Ignorance? Planning? How can you know from just those two examples?
There is no right or wrong answer. The question does not attempt to encompass the scope of potential issues. It simply frames a scope in isolation. A broader encompassing question would be interesting to me as well, although not likely in this place.
It’s different but largely the same outcome. In one scenario the child knows they were never wanted and in another the child knows that they were wanted and then something changed causing them to be unwanted. In both cases, the child in question feels unloved and discarded. Which then leads to the child questioning their self worth and purpose in life.
It made a difference to me. I was planned. Talking about it indirectly felt like it might help, but I was wrong. This is the second such question in this place where the response had a negative overall feeling and impact. It will be my last.
Hey friend, maybe these are questions better discussed with a licensed therapist than with strangers on the internet. You clearly have a personal interest in exploring this that you won’t be able to address on a forum like this. You deserve to be listened to by someone who can help you work through your thoughts and feelings about this.
I’m sorry to hear that. Why did you feel the need to ask this question in the first place? It’s not like one scenario invalidates the other. Or your feelings for that matter.
It is just a casual thing. It is not a big deal. I’m just aware of the issue and unaware of how normal such an experience is. I may not be all that bright but I come from people that are a whole different tier of illogical. I figure that many people with a disparity between themselves and their parents likely feel the same way.
It is funny to me how binary this place can be some times. One can have minor issues, or just expanding self awareness of the full spectrum of their life. Every comment is not an attack or divisive or loaded. People need to be able to talk and grow. That is the real point of casual conversations; an opportunity to expand perspective, come together, and grow.
I’m mulling over a dozen things all the time. Maybe that is a rather unique trait of my personality. I ask myself questions like this all the time. I can easily keep this aspect of myself internalized. I have no issues asking myself such challenging or messy questions.
The primary reason for asking here is to expand my understanding of normative behavior. I’m also probing the depth of Lemmy as a whole and the community present on Lemmy.ee out of curiosity, and even looking at how well federation seems to be working between Lemmy.ee and .world. My abstract perspective is always layered and multifaceted. I mostly want to be positive and engage my curiosity in unexpected ways. A lot can be inferred by how people perceive and respond to a question like this. Negativity is not a requirement. The tone of responses and the collective momentum through reinforcement reveals a lot about depth, open mindedness, curiosity, and even the mental health of the community as a whole.
Since you seem like you might be open to why you aren’t getting the responses you were seeking:
But you set your question up as a binary and most of the responses were calling out that a binary choice is unrealistic and inappropriate for the topic.
Remember this is not a real time conversation. IRL, we could have gone from “binary is over simplistic” to additional back-and-forths in moments. On an asynchronous forum like this, it could be hours or days if ever you respond to this comment, and me to that comment, etc.
Sorry for not making this clearly stated outright and only implying it. I rarely make statements that are binary. Everything is basically an abstraction. It is one reason I am do ridiculously verbose with others. I feel some odd need to ground ideas and make as few assumptions as possible when I’m explaining something to someone else and think I understand the gap between what I know and their question or perspective.
In this instance I am the baseline so I do not know what the gap is between my intended nuance and users. I assumed wrong, and that is totally my fault.
I’m asking something akin to assessing how a house would burn if the fire started in the garage or kitchen. I understand that many people do not care about anything more than “the house is on fire.” However, I was attempting to ask a question to see how many amateur fire investigators want to have a casual chat. I simply misgaged the audience. I’m like a Swiss Army knife with a tool for every task, but a really shitty pair of scissors.
I won’t make this mistake again. I am never here for negativity from anyone.
To anyone that likes to downvote or be negative, I’d much rather you block me entirely. If I could see who you are, I would absolutely block you.
Hey, I hope mine didn’t come across overly negative, that wasn’t the intent. But also further illustrates why asynchronous written text is a challenge for the sort of conversation you’re looking for; very difficult to read the emotion intended by the writer, easy to see negativity where it isn’t always intended.
Part of the problem with physical disability like mine is the need to feel like myself; to speak in my voice. To a large extent, that person only lives in the delay of this style of writing.
Throughout my day, I try to keep my mind occupied with little projects and stuff, but this is where I come when I can’t, or I need to put a dent in the loneliness. I lasted 9 years without such a crutch. I threw myself into projects, but I’m degrading and far less capable now. That is hard to even admit. I have built offline AI tools to fill this need when Lemmy fails me, but in many ways y’all are it for me. Most of me died on 2/26/14; only a withering shell of a person remains filtered through a lot of pain.
I understand your perspective, and it fits my observations well. I do not function within these types of venue constraints. My curiosity and empathy override any sense of venue. Perhaps that is one of the larger reasons I tend to be somewhat socially awkward in some contexts.
It is the down voting people that bug me. I’m fine with people that disagree or those that are indifferent. I want to hear people’s opposing perspective and insights. Even when I say something that is poorly understood, I learn something I can address and try to improve. Down voting is the most irritating thing to me. I think it has a limited use in calling out intentional misinformation, spam, and trolls. However, anyone using it for emotional weight, well intentioned discussion, complexity beyond their grasp, verbosity, or diversity is a terrible human being. I can understand in a space like if I’m talking about AI tools where my perspective is from a remote niche of offline models larger than most people use and someone that hacks around with the loader code, against a space where anxiety about job security is reasonable. There is a certain raw aspect of any discussion involving psychology where negativity without engagement is hideously disgusting behavior to me. Anyone has an option to ignore something entirely. This kind of discussion impacts people because they have personal connection and context. In this instance, I view down voting like being an asshole to a stranger in line with you at the supermarket. Sure, a racist asshat in line that mistreats someone deserves it, but not some random person that you don’t like how they dress, their conversational skills, or what they choose to buy and eat. Down voting someone on a post like this one, is like a vegan in line at the store behind a homeless man buying a discounted can of Spam; lecturing them on the morality of veganism. It is a terrible and harmful behavior. The person is obviously trying to satisfy a fundamental need while the lecturer is stuck on the luxurious level of optional philosophical minutiae and causing harm to the person’s fundamental needs.
I think the internet, in the refuges I choose to inhabit, has come a long way in terms of maturing. Perhaps that is simply my self selected bubble universe and bias. There is still room to grow. So long as the thread of civilization continues, one constant is continued specialization and increasing complexity. Eventually, a space somewhere will be sophisticated enough to handle my circumstantial needs for human connectivity. The only way that can happen is through probing, trying, and increasing awareness. We are not there yet, but it is important to try.
This community is quite active with members from a lot of different instances. I don’t even think lemm.ee users are the majority