I think there is a decent chance that this is Russia trying to divide America still. That is Putin’s long term game because he knows he can’t win an actual war with all of America.
Their psyops game is horrendously effective, and it makes me furious.
And because it’s so effective, it makes sense for them to continue it, to continue to fracture the English-speaking world.
(It’s also cheap compared to manufacturing weapons…get a bunch of laptops, hire a bunch of trolls for a slightly-better-than-average wage in some local currency doing a job that ISN’T hard labor, which probably seems cushy. Put them in a room, and have them do a script. Very cheap compared to actually designing and manufacturing real weapons, or doing real logistics for war, etc. Cheap and effective = huge incentive for continuing indefinitely.)
The goal I’ve noticed is to make no place online safe. Poison everything. Texts in this particular case, make PoC in America and elsewhere apt to vent and lash out because of the pressure, but also they also poison forums, social media of any and all stripes, etc. Divide and conquer, anyone, everyone, everywhere.
Have a hobby? They’ll slide into the hobby discussion sites and start flame wars.
(I saw this happen a lot on Reddit’s Star Trek sub. Why was that sub a target? My suspicion is that it’s because Star Trek is a comfort show for a lot of people over generations and across nationalities in the West, and also acts as a way to promote Western values of tolerance and thoughtfulness and curiosity, so they want to poison the comforting retreat people go to when they can’t stand the overt hopelessness of the political or news subs.)
It happens with all sorts of loves and hobbies too. Have a favorite team, a favorite book, a favorite movie and want to just geek out over it? They slide into that and start shit.
And it’s really insidious sometimes…they’ll take an already-hot topic and start up a new thread with wording that makes them look clueless but not aggressive. So because they’re not obviously an asshole, people hop in giving them the benefit of the doubt and the flame war on (whatever topic specific to that interest) ignites again.
Unless the mods know how to spot that and moderate (which is fairly rare)…but even if that happens, the problem there is that if the mods do their jobs, a true clueless newbie coming in won’t know the history of this or that topic and will accidentally get hit by a sudden banhammer without knowing why…which in its way also starts shit, because the real person caught in the net gets their feelings hurt. So it’s a catch-22…bad mods, and an online social space is easily manipulated to become a cesspool, but good mods sometimes also accidentally catch a real person in their net…so shit STILL goes down and poisons the well.
Nations doing psyops shit online play both sides, too. So they won’t always start shit by posting a far-right viewpoint…they’ll choose a lefty viewpoint too, it costs them nothing to lie, but they’ll speckle it in with enough “tinder” that flames still ignite. Or they’ll have multiple accounts responding to each other.
The only reason I notice this, btw, is because I was a geek in fandoms BEFORE this sort of manipulation started, so I remember what a “legit” forum SHOULD look like. Like, there were always trolls and people with shitty social skills…but it was a very different type of trolling than this psyops shit we see now, because real people with real egos and desires and motivations were behind it. It had a different rise and fall, a different pattern. I guess it was more like real life–with allowances that people will say things anonymously that they’d never say face to face?
Younger folks who have never known a “good” and sane discussion forum think the toxicity and hopelessness online everywhere in every topic is NORMAL. But it’s not.
(When Lemmy was unknown, it was more like the forums of old, but now it’s on various antagonists’ radar there’s been an uptick of bad actors starting shit in comments.)
Get the word out more, we need to remind people or explain to people.
Honestly we need what you wrote but way more succinct in a way we can just copy and paste it to every post and news article we see that is just trying to divide us.
Russia has developed an effective online tactics game, using cheap and widespread methods to manipulate public opinion and sow discord. Their goal is to create an environment where no online space feels safe or trustworthy.
Tactics:
Creating fake accounts to spread false information and ignite conflicts
Targeting sensitive topics like race, politics, and hobbies to exploit emotions and provoke reactions
Posting “clueless” comments to elicit responses from genuine users, then fueling the resulting flame wars
Playing both sides by promoting opposing views with a mix of truth and disinformation
Consequences:
Fracturing English-speaking communities and eroding trust online
Normalizing toxic behavior and making it seem like “just how things are”
Disrupting healthy discussions and debates, creating an atmosphere of hopelessness and cynicism
The Threat:
Russia’s online psyops campaign is a real and significant threat to global democracy and community cohesion. By recognizing this threat and taking steps to mitigate its effects, we can work towards preserving the integrity and safety of online spaces.
Although that may be effective to some, that format is too dry and science-y to tap into the people who need to be reached.
We need the power of a human being’s impassioned words, presented in the context of a natural conversation, converted into a meme-able format. The simplest way would be to copy/paste the original comment and start sharing it on other platforms. If there is a way to make the message more succinct, without losing that crucial human touch that inspires people to relate to the message, that would be ideal.
I think there is a decent chance that this is Russia trying to divide America still. That is Putin’s long term game because he knows he can’t win an actual war with all of America.
Yep.
::rant incoming::
Their psyops game is horrendously effective, and it makes me furious.
And because it’s so effective, it makes sense for them to continue it, to continue to fracture the English-speaking world.
(It’s also cheap compared to manufacturing weapons…get a bunch of laptops, hire a bunch of trolls for a slightly-better-than-average wage in some local currency doing a job that ISN’T hard labor, which probably seems cushy. Put them in a room, and have them do a script. Very cheap compared to actually designing and manufacturing real weapons, or doing real logistics for war, etc. Cheap and effective = huge incentive for continuing indefinitely.)
The goal I’ve noticed is to make no place online safe. Poison everything. Texts in this particular case, make PoC in America and elsewhere apt to vent and lash out because of the pressure, but also they also poison forums, social media of any and all stripes, etc. Divide and conquer, anyone, everyone, everywhere.
Have a hobby? They’ll slide into the hobby discussion sites and start flame wars.
(I saw this happen a lot on Reddit’s Star Trek sub. Why was that sub a target? My suspicion is that it’s because Star Trek is a comfort show for a lot of people over generations and across nationalities in the West, and also acts as a way to promote Western values of tolerance and thoughtfulness and curiosity, so they want to poison the comforting retreat people go to when they can’t stand the overt hopelessness of the political or news subs.)
It happens with all sorts of loves and hobbies too. Have a favorite team, a favorite book, a favorite movie and want to just geek out over it? They slide into that and start shit.
And it’s really insidious sometimes…they’ll take an already-hot topic and start up a new thread with wording that makes them look clueless but not aggressive. So because they’re not obviously an asshole, people hop in giving them the benefit of the doubt and the flame war on (whatever topic specific to that interest) ignites again.
Unless the mods know how to spot that and moderate (which is fairly rare)…but even if that happens, the problem there is that if the mods do their jobs, a true clueless newbie coming in won’t know the history of this or that topic and will accidentally get hit by a sudden banhammer without knowing why…which in its way also starts shit, because the real person caught in the net gets their feelings hurt. So it’s a catch-22…bad mods, and an online social space is easily manipulated to become a cesspool, but good mods sometimes also accidentally catch a real person in their net…so shit STILL goes down and poisons the well.
Nations doing psyops shit online play both sides, too. So they won’t always start shit by posting a far-right viewpoint…they’ll choose a lefty viewpoint too, it costs them nothing to lie, but they’ll speckle it in with enough “tinder” that flames still ignite. Or they’ll have multiple accounts responding to each other.
The only reason I notice this, btw, is because I was a geek in fandoms BEFORE this sort of manipulation started, so I remember what a “legit” forum SHOULD look like. Like, there were always trolls and people with shitty social skills…but it was a very different type of trolling than this psyops shit we see now, because real people with real egos and desires and motivations were behind it. It had a different rise and fall, a different pattern. I guess it was more like real life–with allowances that people will say things anonymously that they’d never say face to face?
Younger folks who have never known a “good” and sane discussion forum think the toxicity and hopelessness online everywhere in every topic is NORMAL. But it’s not.
(When Lemmy was unknown, it was more like the forums of old, but now it’s on various antagonists’ radar there’s been an uptick of bad actors starting shit in comments.)
Are there any ways we can fight this? In my head “guerilla counter psyops” sounds really cool…
But like is the move to ignore? Point out what they’re doing? Verbal judo? Report and move on?
This should be required reading before being allowed on lemmy.
Get the word out more, we need to remind people or explain to people.
Honestly we need what you wrote but way more succinct in a way we can just copy and paste it to every post and news article we see that is just trying to divide us.
Computers to the rescue. AI succinctification:
Here’s a distilled version of the article:
Russian Psyops: Poisoning Online Communities
Russia has developed an effective online tactics game, using cheap and widespread methods to manipulate public opinion and sow discord. Their goal is to create an environment where no online space feels safe or trustworthy.
Tactics:
Consequences:
The Threat:
Russia’s online psyops campaign is a real and significant threat to global democracy and community cohesion. By recognizing this threat and taking steps to mitigate its effects, we can work towards preserving the integrity and safety of online spaces.
Although that may be effective to some, that format is too dry and science-y to tap into the people who need to be reached.
We need the power of a human being’s impassioned words, presented in the context of a natural conversation, converted into a meme-able format. The simplest way would be to copy/paste the original comment and start sharing it on other platforms. If there is a way to make the message more succinct, without losing that crucial human touch that inspires people to relate to the message, that would be ideal.
Lemmy is still fine if you block hexbear, grad, and .ml. .ee also gets infested sometimes but the mods do their best.
This is a larger internet/misinformation problem though, way beyond lemmy. You can filter stuff, but your friends and family may not
Trump winning is also Putin’s long term game, for all we know
Not even in question.
It’s not his long term plan, it was a short term plan to help his long term plans. Trump is a pawn
Oh that’s what I meant - a step in his long term plan, not the ultimate goal, of course
It’s true.
The question is how do we look after our brothers/sisters?
I don’t care who’s sending it, it’s not ok.