I know this is a wildly unpopular sentiment, but the more I’ve come to understand about how this kind of hate works, the more apparent it’s become that this is exactly what it feeds on.
I don’t know what will solve the current crisis we’re living through, but the kind of violence this sticker is talking about just radocalizes people and justifies the feelings of persecution that hatred NEEDS in order to sustain itself.
I’m honestly still trying to figure out what kind of solution at can save us. But I’m pretty confident this isn’t it. I think this just digs the hole deeper, and accelerates the decent into full blown fascism :(
People need to be radicalized against Nazis. You need to read up on some history. You don’t have run of the mill “political disagreements” with fascists. As you’ve probably seen, they will do whatever they need to gain power, and when they do, people will die.
It has been about two months. Let’s see how trans people are doing a year from now if these people continue to escalate this shit unchecked.
It can happen here. It is already happening here. Fascism can be given no quarter in a free society, or else it will infect it and kill the host.
Don’t take my word for it. I implore you to read about Germany in the 1930s. Read about how the Nazis gained power (remarkably similar to our current circumstances). Look at who they targeted first (trans people). Look at how they commanded big business and how corporations kowtowed to them.
Read Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco (though at this point, we’re past the “Ur-” part, I believe).
*sorry for the ridiculously long wall of text, I care a lot about this subject and my mental health is in the gutter so I don’t really have the energy to edit it down
Please don’t condecend to me just because I don’t agree with you, I’m quite familiar with Nazi history. Presuming my ignorance solely on the grounds that I don’t share your perspective is pretty frustrating and unpleasant to be on the receiving end of. And to be very clear, I was saying violence against hateful people radicalizes more nazis.
I expect you don’t agree, and that’s okay. Frankly I at some point there will be no other option but violence, but when you listen to people who has left hate groups like white nationalist or neo-nazi organizations, they’ll tell you very explicitly that the experiences that make it easy to stay stuck in their hatred and dragged them into that worldview in the first place are the ones where they can justify their sense of persecution. To be even more clear, I do believe nazis deserve violence or death, but I’m a lot more interested in what gets us out of this mess than I am in what constitutes appropriate punishment.
This is a long ass video but I feel it’s worth watching if this is a subject you care about. Its an account of a former neo-nazi, and he speaks very candidly about how his experiences receiving (deserved) violence for his hateful views radicalized him and are what perpetuated and sustained his hate. Though he also talks about a lot more than that, and it’s useful to know your enemy whether you see things the same way I do or not. Today he works for a nonprofit that helps support families with deradicalizing violent extremists like neonazis and incels.
https://youtu.be/d-g3Z8IWsdU
Violence and persecution is what hate feeds on. The more you allow them to feel like victims the more people they will draw in, and I honestly don’t know what the best approach is, I think the issue needs a lot of research, that we will probably never get, or at least won’t have available in trying to fix the fucked up hole America is slipping into, and that the rest of the world seems to be drifting towards along with it.
Maybe violently culling anyone who advocates hate really is the only way to stop the proliferation of that hate one it reaches a critical mass. And if that’s the case, what amount of a population is that critical mass?
I’m well aware of how the Nazis came to power. What I’m saying is I worry violence in response to that process may just pour accelerant on that growing fire.
And yes, I know they targeted trans people, though it seems strange to me to call out only trans people as where it started? Do you have sources where I could read more about that? Or do you just mean trans folks were amoung the wide range of minorities that were initially targeted, and are mentioning them because they’re one of the main minority scapegoats of modern fascism? And for context, I’m gender queer. I’m amab, take estrogen, have boobs, and I sit down to pee. Nazis would kill me for existing.
I appreciate the book recommendation, I haven’t read it. I appreciate that you care and want to see us survive this whole mess. I hope it’s clear that I do also.
Ur-Fascism isn’t a book, it’s an 8 or 9 page essay that you can get a PDF of online for free with a quick Google search. Well worth the 10 min or so it takes to read it.
Regarding the trans thing, they were literally among the first targeted:
You can be forgiven for not being aware, this was something I had no idea about until maybe a few years ago. Was never taught this, even in college history courses at a liberal school.
I know this is a wildly unpopular sentiment, but the more I’ve come to understand about how this kind of hate works, the more apparent it’s become that this is exactly what it feeds on.
I don’t know what will solve the current crisis we’re living through, but the kind of violence this sticker is talking about just radocalizes people and justifies the feelings of persecution that hatred NEEDS in order to sustain itself.
I’m honestly still trying to figure out what kind of solution at can save us. But I’m pretty confident this isn’t it. I think this just digs the hole deeper, and accelerates the decent into full blown fascism :(
People need to be radicalized against Nazis. You need to read up on some history. You don’t have run of the mill “political disagreements” with fascists. As you’ve probably seen, they will do whatever they need to gain power, and when they do, people will die.
It has been about two months. Let’s see how trans people are doing a year from now if these people continue to escalate this shit unchecked.
It can happen here. It is already happening here. Fascism can be given no quarter in a free society, or else it will infect it and kill the host.
Don’t take my word for it. I implore you to read about Germany in the 1930s. Read about how the Nazis gained power (remarkably similar to our current circumstances). Look at who they targeted first (trans people). Look at how they commanded big business and how corporations kowtowed to them.
Read Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco (though at this point, we’re past the “Ur-” part, I believe).
*sorry for the ridiculously long wall of text, I care a lot about this subject and my mental health is in the gutter so I don’t really have the energy to edit it down
Please don’t condecend to me just because I don’t agree with you, I’m quite familiar with Nazi history. Presuming my ignorance solely on the grounds that I don’t share your perspective is pretty frustrating and unpleasant to be on the receiving end of. And to be very clear, I was saying violence against hateful people radicalizes more nazis.
I expect you don’t agree, and that’s okay. Frankly I at some point there will be no other option but violence, but when you listen to people who has left hate groups like white nationalist or neo-nazi organizations, they’ll tell you very explicitly that the experiences that make it easy to stay stuck in their hatred and dragged them into that worldview in the first place are the ones where they can justify their sense of persecution. To be even more clear, I do believe nazis deserve violence or death, but I’m a lot more interested in what gets us out of this mess than I am in what constitutes appropriate punishment.
This is a long ass video but I feel it’s worth watching if this is a subject you care about. Its an account of a former neo-nazi, and he speaks very candidly about how his experiences receiving (deserved) violence for his hateful views radicalized him and are what perpetuated and sustained his hate. Though he also talks about a lot more than that, and it’s useful to know your enemy whether you see things the same way I do or not. Today he works for a nonprofit that helps support families with deradicalizing violent extremists like neonazis and incels. https://youtu.be/d-g3Z8IWsdU
Violence and persecution is what hate feeds on. The more you allow them to feel like victims the more people they will draw in, and I honestly don’t know what the best approach is, I think the issue needs a lot of research, that we will probably never get, or at least won’t have available in trying to fix the fucked up hole America is slipping into, and that the rest of the world seems to be drifting towards along with it.
Maybe violently culling anyone who advocates hate really is the only way to stop the proliferation of that hate one it reaches a critical mass. And if that’s the case, what amount of a population is that critical mass?
I’m well aware of how the Nazis came to power. What I’m saying is I worry violence in response to that process may just pour accelerant on that growing fire.
And yes, I know they targeted trans people, though it seems strange to me to call out only trans people as where it started? Do you have sources where I could read more about that? Or do you just mean trans folks were amoung the wide range of minorities that were initially targeted, and are mentioning them because they’re one of the main minority scapegoats of modern fascism? And for context, I’m gender queer. I’m amab, take estrogen, have boobs, and I sit down to pee. Nazis would kill me for existing.
I appreciate the book recommendation, I haven’t read it. I appreciate that you care and want to see us survive this whole mess. I hope it’s clear that I do also.
Ur-Fascism isn’t a book, it’s an 8 or 9 page essay that you can get a PDF of online for free with a quick Google search. Well worth the 10 min or so it takes to read it.
Regarding the trans thing, they were literally among the first targeted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_für_Sexualwissenschaft
https://hmd.org.uk/resource/6-may-1933-looting-of-the-institute-of-sexology/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_Nazi_Germany
You can be forgiven for not being aware, this was something I had no idea about until maybe a few years ago. Was never taught this, even in college history courses at a liberal school.