On the other hand going to war over word use is not a good use of the left’s energy.
I understand the words are supposed to be proxies/symbols for inclusivity and respect for freedoms and charter rights, but that tends to get lost, to the point where both sides start to believe that it really is just about pronouns.
There are really big, scary things going on out there — corporatism, environmental disaster, and a geopolitical powder keg building — and I’m starting to worry we are spending way too much effort and energy on kindergarten-level righteousness.
if I started purposefully calling you ma’m or lil miss all the time (assuming you’re a dude) you wouldn’t like it.
What’s not to like? The nerd trying to be a bully is funny.
If I suspended the charter to make a law that everyone has to call you lil miss you don’t think you’d be mad?
I would think you are mad (in the insane sense).
The right however is going to war over this shit
I’m sure there is no completely unified front, but many are pushing for this because they consider it to be a mental illness. If you look at it from that point of view, you can see why they do not see the problem with calling notwithstanding. It is already granted under the Charter for educators to notify parents when they see children displaying symptoms of illness. From their point of view, failing to do so is not complying with one’s rights.
In other words, the real clash is the idea of it being a mental illness v.s. it being normal human expression. Words are merely caught in the crossfire.
I’d have no issue with you calling me ma’am or whatever you feel comfortable with, but that’s only because that part of my identity is not something I’ve struggled with for much of my life.
I totally understand and empathize with people for whom perceived gender is not what they identify as, and I’m 100% in support of ensuring that everyone has the right to be referred to by their chosen pronouns.
My point is that I worry that this issue is overshadowing other issues that I think are existentially threatening to our entire way of life.
We’re busying ourselves over respectful word use, while the world crumbles around us.
Do you think anyone will respect anyone’s pronouns when the world’s superpowers are run by fascist governments or our ecosystems and food production have collapsed?
That’s exactly the point. There is a cost. The news media and the public discourse has limited bandwidth. There are only so many things we can talk about and fight for at any given time, and to me it seems like this issue may be drowning out more existential issues.
The irony is that the argument over pronouns is intentionally being amplified by right wing media and activists. They’re trolling us into being outraged about this, and we’re falling right into their trap.
It’s classic bikeshedding being used against us, and most of us seem to be entirely unaware.
Are you seriously finding calling people by correct pronouns difficult?
How would you ever know? You are not going to use third-person pronouns in front of the subject and there is no contention around the use of second-person pronouns that I am aware of. If you use the wrong third-person pronoun in front of others on the rare occasion that you need to talk about someone, they aren’t going to notice or care.
If there’s a bandwidth issue and right wing people are so concerned about it
He said they are trolling you, not that they have concern. There is nothing to be concerned about.
I was raised to understand that respecting a person’s right to how they are called is not a symbol of respect, but a demonstration of respect.
While there are certainly some very big threats out there, it’s my opinion that they are another expression of some of the same ideologies behind the fight against the right to be called how you want to be called. Further, it’s my opinion that we cannot fight those threats without also fighting those ideologies, wherever we find them.
In an average year, one in three trans youth in Canada attempt suicide. ( source, which cites papers ). The rate is lower among those who are accepted for what they are.
By trying to trivialize this issue, you’re saying you want these kids dead.
On the other hand going to war over word use is not a good use of the left’s energy.
So, here’s the thing: The “left” isn’t going to war over the use of words. The “left” isn’t engaging in some proactive, organized measure against some idea or innocuous mouth noises. The fascists are doing that. All that is happening is that a bunch of individuals are, individually, asking to be referred to by certain names, or in certain terms. It really isn’t that different from a bunch of people who are all named Richard asking people to call them “Richard” or “Rick”, and not “Dick” or “Dickie”.
Except the fascists have organized to make it very hard for the Ricks and Richards to do that, and to enable the assholes of the world to call them “Dick” and “Dickie”.
Now, if you’re at all familiar with the history of fascism, or the tactics fascists use to make inroads with the public, you might recognize this kind of wedge issue for what it is: A populist ploy to rise to power on the back of empowering pricks to bully a persecuted minority. And, if you don’t want fascists to have power in your society, you might then react by moving to oppose these really-actually-fairly-effective tactics. Also, if you’re someone who gives a shit about basic human dignity or just not letting the shit stains of the world smear their putrescence all over society, you might also act to defend the persecuted minority against their shitty, shitty behaviour.
The right is going to war over the use of words. Stop enabling them by blaming those who stand in opposition to them. Point the finger at the perpetrator, not the defender. They’re the ones spending their time attacking society’s vulnerable, rather than helping people who are struggling. Remember, Moe is the sitting Premiere of Saskatchewan. He’s the one in charge. He could be spending his time making life more affordable and more enjoyable for the people of his province, but instead he’s chosen to make the lives of scared kids harder while at the same time choosing to help big businesses over residents.
What do you want other people to do? Not protect literal children from the fucking Premiere?
On the other hand going to war over word use is not a good use of the left’s energy.
I understand the words are supposed to be proxies/symbols for inclusivity and respect for freedoms and charter rights, but that tends to get lost, to the point where both sides start to believe that it really is just about pronouns.
There are really big, scary things going on out there — corporatism, environmental disaster, and a geopolitical powder keg building — and I’m starting to worry we are spending way too much effort and energy on kindergarten-level righteousness.
deleted by creator
What’s not to like? The nerd trying to be a bully is funny.
I would think you are mad (in the insane sense).
I’m sure there is no completely unified front, but many are pushing for this because they consider it to be a mental illness. If you look at it from that point of view, you can see why they do not see the problem with calling notwithstanding. It is already granted under the Charter for educators to notify parents when they see children displaying symptoms of illness. From their point of view, failing to do so is not complying with one’s rights.
In other words, the real clash is the idea of it being a mental illness v.s. it being normal human expression. Words are merely caught in the crossfire.
I’d have no issue with you calling me ma’am or whatever you feel comfortable with, but that’s only because that part of my identity is not something I’ve struggled with for much of my life.
I totally understand and empathize with people for whom perceived gender is not what they identify as, and I’m 100% in support of ensuring that everyone has the right to be referred to by their chosen pronouns.
My point is that I worry that this issue is overshadowing other issues that I think are existentially threatening to our entire way of life.
We’re busying ourselves over respectful word use, while the world crumbles around us.
Do you think anyone will respect anyone’s pronouns when the world’s superpowers are run by fascist governments or our ecosystems and food production have collapsed?
deleted by creator
That’s exactly the point. There is a cost. The news media and the public discourse has limited bandwidth. There are only so many things we can talk about and fight for at any given time, and to me it seems like this issue may be drowning out more existential issues.
The irony is that the argument over pronouns is intentionally being amplified by right wing media and activists. They’re trolling us into being outraged about this, and we’re falling right into their trap.
It’s classic bikeshedding being used against us, and most of us seem to be entirely unaware.
deleted by creator
How would you ever know? You are not going to use third-person pronouns in front of the subject and there is no contention around the use of second-person pronouns that I am aware of. If you use the wrong third-person pronoun in front of others on the rare occasion that you need to talk about someone, they aren’t going to notice or care.
He said they are trolling you, not that they have concern. There is nothing to be concerned about.
How absurdly reductive.
It’s not about, “word use”, it’s about protecting the most vulnerable of our children.
Stop trolling, we see right through your reductive nonsense.
I was raised to understand that respecting a person’s right to how they are called is not a symbol of respect, but a demonstration of respect.
While there are certainly some very big threats out there, it’s my opinion that they are another expression of some of the same ideologies behind the fight against the right to be called how you want to be called. Further, it’s my opinion that we cannot fight those threats without also fighting those ideologies, wherever we find them.
In an average year, one in three trans youth in Canada attempt suicide. ( source, which cites papers ). The rate is lower among those who are accepted for what they are.
By trying to trivialize this issue, you’re saying you want these kids dead.
So, here’s the thing: The “left” isn’t going to war over the use of words. The “left” isn’t engaging in some proactive, organized measure against some idea or innocuous mouth noises. The fascists are doing that. All that is happening is that a bunch of individuals are, individually, asking to be referred to by certain names, or in certain terms. It really isn’t that different from a bunch of people who are all named Richard asking people to call them “Richard” or “Rick”, and not “Dick” or “Dickie”.
Except the fascists have organized to make it very hard for the Ricks and Richards to do that, and to enable the assholes of the world to call them “Dick” and “Dickie”.
Now, if you’re at all familiar with the history of fascism, or the tactics fascists use to make inroads with the public, you might recognize this kind of wedge issue for what it is: A populist ploy to rise to power on the back of empowering pricks to bully a persecuted minority. And, if you don’t want fascists to have power in your society, you might then react by moving to oppose these really-actually-fairly-effective tactics. Also, if you’re someone who gives a shit about basic human dignity or just not letting the shit stains of the world smear their putrescence all over society, you might also act to defend the persecuted minority against their shitty, shitty behaviour.
The right is going to war over the use of words. Stop enabling them by blaming those who stand in opposition to them. Point the finger at the perpetrator, not the defender. They’re the ones spending their time attacking society’s vulnerable, rather than helping people who are struggling. Remember, Moe is the sitting Premiere of Saskatchewan. He’s the one in charge. He could be spending his time making life more affordable and more enjoyable for the people of his province, but instead he’s chosen to make the lives of scared kids harder while at the same time choosing to help big businesses over residents.
What do you want other people to do? Not protect literal children from the fucking Premiere?