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Wait is toll roads not a thing
It is, but it runs into the ‘natural monopoly’ problem - that whoever owns the roads can essentially strangle everyone else into economic (or actual) subservience. Assuming property rights are enforced.
“The Community” would be the EXACT same, except now it’s Jimbo instead of Domino’s. The failure of libertarianism is the belief that people are inherently good and would do good for others. Or that they would agree on what “good” even is.
Except roads maintained by local communities have been a reality for as long as roads have been around.
The core issue with the libright argument is not “No one except THE STATE is capable of maintaining roads!”, the core issue is “Property rights which offer exclusive access (or exclusive permission to admit access) are a major conceptual problem with private roads/transport over property.” And, perhaps ironically, capitalist/private property oriented systems are those which are most vulnerable to the ‘tragedy of the commons.’ By the complete divorce of social and economic spheres, and the emphasis of shareholders on extracting profit without concern for long-term economic health, issues like publicly available roads are unlikely to catch the attention of the account books of the local firms until the situation has already become catastrophic - at which point a sale of the road system and reversion to tolls (and thus the accompanying natural monopoly problem) is likely.
Fuck, man, I wouldn’t trust my local community to maintain the fuckin’ roads, but that’s a far cry from saying that no community could. God knows I’ve lived in places where the state didn’t maintain the fuckin’ roads either.
Yeah, so it’s funny how any time you see a “Road not maintained by city” sign it’s ALWAYS at a spot where the road turns from asphalt to dirt with massive ruts. Where are all those community members then? I live right on the edge of one of those areas. So why is it that once the community is responsible, it’s always a step down in quality?
Because people suck. Not “corporations”. Corporations ARE PEOPLE. And this ass backwards logic that always tries to blame faceless corporations for the failings of PEOPLE is just trying to whitewash our own inabilities and failings.
We’re never going to make any progress until we admit our own failings and stop trying to pretend they don’t exist. We need to address the truth of these matters, no matter how difficult or uncomfortable they may be. Humans are BAD at various things. Our own perception and senses are prone to confusion and error. Our own memories easily manipulated. Pretending that we’re saints just being held back by some vague evil out of our control is bullshit.
Yeah, so it’s funny how any time you see a “Road not maintained by city” sign it’s ALWAYS at a spot where the road turns from asphalt to dirt with massive ruts. Where are all those community members then?
Community responsibility doesn’t just spring fully formed out of uncertainty, and for that matter, roads not maintained by the city are often those in areas that are both poorer and less populated, which affords much less latitude for maintaining modern road systems which require either contracting out or specialized skills and materials. Fuck man, in some areas, it’s illegal to patch public roads even if they’re unmaintained.
I live right on the edge of one of those areas. So why is it that once the community is responsible, it’s always a step down in quality?
I can give a long list of arguments why, and most of them you’d probably agree with, because I’m not of the opinion that communities taking care of roads is a superior option to the state taking care of it. My point is only that communities taking care of roads does not have the same fundamental flaw as ancapistan handing roads over to corporate oversight.
We’re never going to make any progress until we admit our own failings and stop trying to pretend they don’t exist. We need to address the truth of these matters, no matter how difficult or uncomfortable they may be. Humans are BAD at various things. Our own perception and senses are prone to confusion and error. Our own memories easily manipulated. Pretending that we’re saints just being held back by some vague evil out of our control is bullshit.
Man, none of the argument I’ve made has anything to do with people being saintly. That people aren’t saintly is kind of a core point here - hence the criticism of libright giving all power over to individuals and self-interested firms. Communities create internal methods of social regulation for economic non-contribution; firms are generally (and ideally) divorced from ideas of social responsibility or retaliation towards the individuals who make it up.
I can cite effective road maintenance by the community from Ancient Rome to medieval cities to the 19th century to today. Saying “Communities can maintain their own roads, while corporate control of roads is nothing but a natural monopoly waiting to strangle economic activity” is not an argument for communities being the most effective way of taking care of roads, nor an argument that communities take care of roads out of the inherent goodness of their hearts rather than self-interest.
Nice moving of the goalposts. You’re full of shit buddy. Moment I point out you’re wrong it’s “oh well those are poor communities so they have XYZ reason”. Doesn’t change that the community won’t do it on its own. Your types love to go on and on about how people without limits will be this utopia and “money is evil”. Nah, it’s a tool, just like you are.
Your types love to go on and on about how people without limits will be this utopia and “money is evil”.
… clearly you’re arguing with a strawman who’ve you’ve fully formed in your head rather than any realistic conception of my views, considering that I’m very far from either of those points, and explicitly pointed out that I prefer state control for roads.
