“Well, first of all, they’re completely wrong,” Huang said in response to a question from Tom’s Hardware editor-in-chief Paul Alcorn about the criticism.
“The reason for that is because, as I have explained very carefully, DLSS 5 fuses controllability of the of geometry and textures and everything about the game with generative AI,” Huang continued.
Just a elongated way to say AI slop.
This is long winded but I firmly believe this explains a lot about the industries frenzied push into all these odd directions… All of it. Here seems as good as any place to dump this mess I’ve been stewing on:
I really think it’s important that raytracing, while novel, wasn’t created to improve visuals. It wasnt created to make a programmers life easier. It was created because it was computationally difficult and could be optimized for. It was a fantastic play by nvidia. They created a feature that functionally did very little but they could get an entire cycle ahead of the competition in that optimization. Differentiation of products, in a duopoly, is a big deal. Amd dove right into it - knowing full well that this would leave them brutally behind… But this was a fortuitous event: despite the disadvantage.
Why? Simple. GPUs have been struggling against Moore’s law. Framerates were exceeding ranges even monitors can refresh at. And worse yet there was another hard limit: our eyes. How do you sell cards that have no perceivable value?
Reality is we may well be reaching a point where additional resolutions and framerates dont matter. Badly optimized games only buy so much time.
These companies aren’t stupid. Crypto? They loved it. Computationally expensive. Always need faster… Until we didnt. What now? Demand was plummeting for overpriced high end cards.
Go back and look at when AI and nvidia got in bed. The earnings call was due to be a bloodbath after all these cards were rotting on shelves, unpurchased, and depreciating daily. It was coming ro light that they had been selling cards to miners under the table and that was going to get ugly fast. I have never, in my life, heard a company talk so much about a product on a earnings call – that wasn’t theirs. Not a word breathed about unsold cards barely any numbers discussed. ChatGPT referenced so many times that there was confusion as to whether nvidia actually owned it. The Q/A at the end was comedy gold. People were so confused.
AI was the perfect save. AI is a power virus. Want to fix the black box? Train a black box to mangage that black box. Its a computational sinkhole. They’ve extracted value from gamers to dimishing returns. Meanwhile they can sell the ultimate snake oil to investors: virtual slave labor. Unpaid workers. In floods private equity. Gamers stopped mattering immediately. All of these advances are software. From a GPU design company. Why? It shuts up the peasants while they continue rebranding the “snake oil” to get whoever is buying. Weve nearly achieved the panacea. Just a bit longer!
Behold: we have dressed our industry in the finest of the emperors newest clothes. You can either start selling them or be the only one who doesn’t.
🫧
From a programming and visuals standpoint: Ray tracing was always sought after, and it is peak graphical fidelity. It makes visuals better, and (shader) programming easier, more physics-based. It’s not just differentiation, the industry has been dreaming of realtime ray-tracing for 30 years. With slow, continuous movement in that direction.
Dont get me wrong. Its absolutely a very novel and useful feature. It made shit look great. I’m not down on the tech: I’m just saying the push for it wasn’t for the industry. It was to kill framerates and sell cards.
I doubt it. This thing was in the pipeline for decades. It wasn’t just nvidia doing the thing because moore’s law. Everybody was interested and excited, while the moore’s law was alive and well. Literally can’t find better quality, but intel was pushing tech demos such as this.
The actual push for adoption and walled garden of NV RTX is… honestly, just business as usual. Nvidia did exact same with PhysX. Once they have the technological edge, they push hard to pump their ecosystem. They always played evil.
It’s a way of saying that devs have control over how it’s applied. But given examples are just bad - model changing the shape of lips and eyes is all too familiar to anyone who toyed with stable diffusion.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again.
Nvidia is destroying gaming.
They started the destruction with the idea of 4k gaming.
When they realized native 4k gaming wasnt going to be feasible… They knocked gaming to the ground and started kicking it in the ribs with this upscaling bullshit, because who doesnt love a 1080p picture shittily stretched to 4k?
And they curb stomped it by making video cards cost more than what most people make in a fucking month.
and they’re beating its unconscious body with bats over this DLSS5 AI obsession bullshit.
and at every step of the way, the gamers were there to deliver dumptrucks of money because they don’t give a fuck about ruining everything as long as they can have their new shiny. Being in the cool kids club by having a new shiny is more important than the havok they are wrecking with their decisions to support this shit.
But don’t worry…They’ll still go online and cry about the unfairness of it all.
and AMD is desperately trying to play catchup so they can try to steal a sliver of the bullshit pie as well, before someone tries to point out me not addressing AMD (since its not the topic), or try to hail it as the saviour of gaming kind.
Well 4k gaming was always going to happen for high-end hardware, they just pushed faster adoption to sell more cards. It’s only now starting to be ready without DLSS.
It does suck indeed, though. I’m quite happy with 1440p and my next card, whenever I can actually afford and justify the upgrade, will allow me to reach 120 fps more easily, without DLSS.
I have a 4k monitor at 60hz and a 2k at 90. The 2k is an easy immediate choice for anything outside of 4x(sweet, sweet ui real estate).
Do you “tune” it just like you tune agents now? Where you feed them a prompt and hope the stupid thing listens?
So- this would potentially render in-game cosmetics useless. You could just DLSS some cosmetic over your character for ‘free’ and skip paying for in-game cosmetic items. You could retexture or skin a model into something else with this tech, theoretically.
Heck, this could be a banned feature for online competitive games if you DLSS enemies to be easier to see.
Non-gaming applications of such tech are kinda frightening, but good to be aware of the possibility. AI swapping of characters has been something they’ve been working on. I’m guessing it will be sold as some kinda feature where you can give the AI some model of yourself, and it swaps the main character of a show or movie for your likeness. People will find it neat and try it and it will sorta work, but mostly just be a novelty. Then you’ll see that data get used for advertising, where they swap out the character in the Ad for you to catch your attention. If they try to catalog every person, this could be valuable and used to maliciously scam people by cloning your voice to mimic you and do all sorts of terrible things.
I imagine in a few years after some major scams and such that we’ll need some new verification systems to try to ensure that transactions are between real people and not just AI with your information. Yes, it will be intrusive and tracking, but will be required to maintain online commerce. Online marketplaces will struggle and possibly collapse without some way to authenticate a transaction. Hey, we may see a return to physical stores and doing everything in person again!
Just think, between that and DOGE nerds having you info, you might as well have no identity. We might as well all be black boxes.
Wouldn’t this be implemented by the game itself? Or are they letting people use it on whatever they want? I honestly haven’t researched too much because I won’t be using it anyway.
Remember, he’s never talking to us, he’s talking to major stockholders.
Even some of those can read the room and reach the conclusion that “if people won’t buy it, I won’t make profits”
Don’t you guys have phones?
Same exact vibes.
But we thought everyone was okay with repackaged interpolation! Why not repackaged Instagram filters!?
I think most people are ok with frame gen because it doesn’t touch the actual content. It just moves things around a bit with motion vectors which actually was kind of a thing even before AI although not very good. It didn’t repaint the game into some different art style.
Also there were real frames in there.
This is going to 100% replace the game graphics.
I think most people are ok with frame gen because it doesn’t touch the actual content. It just moves things around a bit with motion vectors which actually was kind of a thing even before AI although not very good. It didn’t repaint the game into some different art style.
Naw most people are not ok with fake frames, and like raytracing is getting less and less likely to be left on. Most people however hate fake frames not due to the frames themselves but the motion blur effect that seems to be needed to make things look ok on top of the frame gen (no one likes motion blur).
You are right that this is going to replace game graphics to some degree since its another shortcut game studios can use to cut costs (and the industry is kinda struggling at the moment). Why spend effort, time and money making a model look good when you can use a tool to gloss over the work and while it does not look “good” per say it will look better then it should.
Yep, I’m more suggesting that this was the logical path they would have continued down.
I personally don’t like the generation because it’s functionally noise and can effect the feel / responsiveness of the game. Upscaling seems pretty reasonable - but like many I just can’t abide by the notion that we are counting a generated frame as a frame for benchmark sake.
I’m not against framegen existing. It’s a preference. Same as that feature on TVs. To each their own.
Back to the new dlss though: yeah it was inevitable they go here… and I’m personally thrilled this was the line everyone more or less took issue with.
“Well, first of all, they’re completely wrong,”
Proceeds to explain exactly what everyone hates about it.
Trillions invested to make unoptimized games barely run, and make it look worse at the same time, instead of just investing like 1/10th into optimization during dev cycles.
NVIDIA really is like a parasitic cancerous growth on the side of the games industry, it’s existence increasingly predicated on the destruction of current standards, overtaking their function to ensure survival and it’s continuous ever expanding cancerous growth
STOP BUYING NVIDIA
i feel like we might as well drums up som eboycotting spirit while we’re at it. Shaming certainly has an effect as evidenced by his statement here, and if we could at to that a collectivist ‘no more more for you doofus’ energy i think that’d be swell.
We aren’t their main customers anymore, and it would least force them to also aknowledge this themselves. Hopefully.
Idk folks, keep adding pressure on these ghouls, seems to at least have gotten their attention
STOP BUYING NVIDIA
Would have to boycott pretty much all hardware. I don’t know of any large hardware manufacturer that’s not chasing the AI investment money and bribing the Trump admin.
Unfortunately social media users who post are not the average gamer and that’s very apparent when 95% of the discrete GPU market is Nvidia now.
Plus doesn’t help the only other two competitors is AMD who are also jumping on the AI bandwagon and doing not actively competing. Then there’s Intel that’s in bed with Nvidia now.
Boycotts in a duopoly, especially when most clients are businesses, don’t work.
Feels odd to say it but suddenly I’m happy Intel didn’t (completely) shit the bed.
I never understood why everyone was completely happy with one manufacturer having dominance. Everyone seem to think it was just ok for them to be no competition in the market. Here is exactly why we need that competition.
Exactly. The more compititon the better. Imagine what we’d get if nvidia was split into 3 new companies and had to compete. 5 total companies suddenly would be very motivated to make a substantial product to bring to market at a competitive price. We as consumers need this diversity to keep the market honest and moving forward.
“The consumers don’t know what they want. I, the CEO, know what the consumers want. And the consumers want to give me money!”
The more you buy, the more you save!
“Do you guys not have two GPUs?”
None of this is done for the average consumer/gamer. We’re not the consumers he’s addressing.
DLSS is a consumer product.
Angsty Asian Fonzie still jumping the shark.
Jensen is a useless deflated wenis sack of a man. This ai arms race is doing nothing but hurting the fabric of humanity and more importantly, further increasing the rate of environmental destruction. :(
This is so true, very sad …
I LOVE seeing AI-related CEOs come out and say stuff like this.
This is not something you come out and say publicly when you’re confident in your product and genuinely believe it stands on its own merits.
