One thing Reddit dominates on is search results. I’m looking things up and seeing so many links to reddit, which I guess is going to help keep that place relevant (unless those subreddits stay dark).

I wondered how Lemmy and this fed thingy stuff all works for that? With more posts can we expect to see people arriving through search results?

  • wpuckering@lm.williampuckering.comEnglish
    3·
    1 year ago

    There’s a lot of things that factor into the answer, but I think overall it’s gonna be pretty random. Some instances are on domains without “Lemmy” in the name, some don’t include “Lemmy” in the site name configuration, and in the case of some like my own instance, I set the X-Robots-Tag response header such that search engines that properly honor the header won’t crawl or index content on my instance. I’ve actually taken things a step further with mine and put all public paths except for the API endpoints behind authentication (so that Lemmy clients and federation still work with it), so you can’t browse my instance content without going through a proper client for extra privacy. But that goes off-topic.

    Reddit was centralized so could be optimized for SEO. Lemmy instances are individually run with different configuration at the infrastructure level and the application configuration level, which if most people leave things fairly vanilla, should result in pretty good discovery of Lemmy content across most of these kinds of instances, but I would think most people technical enough to host their own instances would have deviated from defaults and (hopefully) implemented some hardening, which would likely mess with SEO.

    So yeah, expect it to be pretty random, but not necessarily unworkable.

    • OrangeSlice@lemmy.mlMEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      Easily the best answer here, I think the people who think it will work “just like Reddit” are unfamiliar with federation still, and aren’t used to thinking things through in those terms.

      Not to mention that Google results in general have been pretty trash for a couple years now. I don’t expect fediverse content to be prominent for some time unless there is a dedicated service that indexes everything.

      • wpuckering@lm.williampuckering.comEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        As a general rule, I prevent all of my self-hosted services that are directly exposed to the Internet from being crawled or indexed by search engines. Any service I do expose publicly to the Internet is of course behind proper authentication and is secured using modern best practices and standards, but lowering the visibility and odds of someone stumbling onto services they have no use for, and potentially trying to exploit them, is less likely to happen if they aren’t presented front and center in a search result. I wouldn’t say it’s a proper security measure by any means (obscurity has nothing to do with real security), but blending into the crowd or taking a seat at the back of the room draws less attention to yourself if you don’t care to be the first target in someone’s sights.

        So why do I expose any of my self-hosted services to the Internet in the first place, rather than access them exclusively via VPN? For me there’s a few reasons:

        • Ease of Access - I want the ability to instantly share usage of specific services that I host with friends and family over the Internet, and I can’t expect them to do so over VPN, even if I were to offer to help them get set up
        • Performance - I use Cloudflare Tunnels to expose my services (no open router ports, ever), so that allows me to use Cloudflare’s CDN for caching static assets such as immutable images, CSS, Javascript, and I’ve extensively tweaked my Cache Rules to squeeze the most of out it
        • Security - Cloudflare secures my services with their built-in tooling, and I can use Cloudflare Access if I want to limit access further to specific users by means of accounts they already have, such as Google or various social media account providers

        …And there are more reasons I could get into, and I could easily expand on the ones above, but I’ll leave it there.

        Of course having all of my external traffic flow through Cloudflare means there’s no expectation of data privacy for any payload traversing in and out of my services, but I’ve decided that I’m okay with that for the other benefits I get out of Cloudflare. Nothing’s truly free, right?

        But to answer your original question more specifically, and with the context above in mind, why actively work against indexing in the case of my Lemmy instance? Well, I’m the only user on my instance. I only use it as a home server for my account. That means I’m not creating any communities on it, and there’s no content actually originating from my instance proper. Anybody who would end up coming across my instance, if they were to browse, would see content which originates from other instances, and only content from the time that I set up my server and began federating with those other servers and onward. They wouldn’t see every comment from posts that pre-dated my federation, so it would be an incomplete view. They would be better off going directly to the server that originated the content. They could of course do that by following the permalink from my own server, but it’s an extra hop. It might arguably be better in this case if I just remove my server entirely from any possible search results so that if the originating instance is indexable, its content shows up in the results and mine don’t. That would probably be a better user experience for users trying to find Lemmy content via search engines, they’d hopefully land in the originating instance sooner than later.

        Long answer, but I wanted to give as much insight and clarity into why I do what I do. Happy to answer any more questions!