Vice President Kamala Harris said in a meeting Saturday with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi that Washington will not allow for the forced relocation of Palestinians or any redrawing of the current border of the Gaza Strip.

“Under no circumstances will the United States permit the forced relocation of Palestinians from Gaza or the West Bank, the besiegement of Gaza, or the redrawing of the borders of Gaza,” Harris said, according to a statement from the vice president’s office.

  • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    How many billions of dollars are they sending to Israel’s military so they can genocide the natives again?

    • Guydht@lemmy.world
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      Lol “genocide the natives”

      Read a bit about this conflict. This isn’t an isolated case, violence in Palestine between arabs and jews has existed since the 19th century. This is just an escalation of that violence, from both sides.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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        Yeah and before that there were Jews living in Palestine in peace. Until the Europeans decided they wanted to eject all the Jews from their population because the Europeans were incredibly anti semitic.

        Then those colonist Zionists got weapons from the Europeans and killed the natives with it.

        • Guydht@lemmy.world
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          Again, saying they just suddenly started getting weapons and killing natives is just ignoring the context.

          As you said, Jews fled European countries because of antisemitism. But they migrated to Palestine legally buying land and working farms to grow their cities. There was no violence by immigrant jews, and no wars on arabs, like your idea of colonialism. Zionism isn’t an empire looking to grow its control, it’s finding a home, through legally bought land, in an historically significant place for the jews, after they were persecuted by pretty much everybody. Heck, most of the early killings were started by arabs who simply didn’t like jews being next to them (Tel Hai, jaffa/haifa riots, jerusalem stabbings…)

          Again, it’s isn’t an isolated conflict, and it has much context with so much hatred from both sides. Saying “they bad they killed the natives” is just losing 100% of the context and circumstances.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            This is a false. Many Zionists lived as regufees and proceeded to steal the houses of the Palestinians who took them in. Zionists are the worst of the worst. Scum of the earth

            • Guydht@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Source?

              Early zionism is literally just buying land from arabs in Palestine and growing jewish population in said areas. Idk where you got that info from, of alegged stealing of houses, but that just isn’t true. Maybe you speak of the 48 war? Which is much later, and is after a full blown war, which everyone acknowledges that there were refugees from said war, and that jews inhabited abandoned arab houses after they left the country. It’s like Syrian immigrants going back to Syria after years of being immigrants and demanding the current people who live where their house used to be (or whatever stands in that place) to give that house back to them. That just isn’t how war or the world works.

                • Guydht@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  Again, when does any of that “proof” video say jews stole land? And again, not the 48 war, since it has the cause of migration in the name itself - war. If war is ethnic cleansing then ohhhh boy are there many ethnic cleansing in the world, and Palestinians are so not special. Don’t ignore context. Yes, many Palestinians were refugees. But no, it wasn’t because of zionism. It was because of the war. Before the war, there were no Palestinian refugees - because unlike what Al Jazeera preaches, zionism was a settlement movement, and a peaceful one. If Palestinian arabs weren’t violent in the resistance to zionism, there would’ve been no violence. But no, they were violent. Same with their arab neighbours, who want nothing more than death to their neighboring jews.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    1948 wasn’t a war it was a violent israeli genocide against mostly unarmed Palestinian civilians.

    • porkins@sh.itjust.works
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      Jews are the natives. Literally the Aramaic way of saying Jew means of the Levant region. You have no clue what you are talking about. Palestinians are refugees that no one wants. Not even their Islamic brethren in other countries. Israel worked to negotiate many peace deals and even had a work visa program. The apartheid-style sanctions were due to security constraints because the Palestinians kept blowing shit up. If people the next town over from you drive into your town an burned down your house randomly, you would eventually put up military checkpoints as well. Many of the radicalized Palestinians don’t appreciate Western culture and think that it’s an affront of their religion. They want women to have minimal rights. It blows me away that many left-leaning individuals want to help support their backwards culture of misogyny.

      • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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        Jews are the natives

        A war 1400 years ago does not justify colonizing and slaughtering natives right now. Surely you can see how fucked up that is?

        By that logic, can African Americans or Chinese Americans return to their respective continents, occupy an entire country by displacing its current population, and claim it as their ancestral land? How delusional.

        And since when is “the period of Judah” an accurate historical reference point?

        Theodor Herzl, founder of Zionism, was just a racist colonizer, and saw it as bringing ‘civilization’ to ‘barbarians’ as the rest of Europe did when they were colonizing and enslaving Africa and Asia:

        “We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence.” Source [II]

        That is exactly what’s happening right now. All for European and US military and economic interests in the region; for their ruling class of capitalist corporations at least.

        Israel is just a modern western colony committing genocide on natives. It’s keeping the middle-east divided and preventing them from uniting against the Imperial core.

        Gaza has been an open-air prison trapping the natives the whole time. And you’re trying to deny their right to fight back against colonizers and settlers? They’re literally openly colonizing the West Bank right now with their whole “Area C” garbage. It’s disgusting.

        want to help support their backwards culture of misogyny

        Jesus christ, the US and Europe are the ones constantly keeping the Middle East at war to keep oil cheap and military profits high, and keeping them from making societal progress. And I’m saying that as an ex-Muslim. This is literally British colonialist era racist thinking of seeing ‘the other side’ as barbarians.

        The PFLP, the second largest Palestinian liberation group after Fatah, calls for a secular Palestinian state where Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. will live together in peace. Modern Fatah even accepts a two-state solution (and they have every right not to).

        Only Hamas is mixing up Zionists with Jews, and that’s entirely because of Israel and the Imperial core’s constant oppression, displacement, and now genocide of the natives.

      • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
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        Palestinians are refugees that no one wants. Not even their Islamic brethren in other countries. Israel worked to negotiate many peace deals and even had a work visa program. The apartheid-style sanctions were due to security constraints because the Palestinians kept blowing shit up…Many of the radicalized Palestinians don’t appreciate Western culture and think that it’s an affront of their religion. They want women to have minimal rights. It blows me away that many left-leaning individuals want to help support their backwards culture of misogyny.

        You sound like a child describing to their parent why one of their action toys was able to beat up one of their other action toys. You also seem to have very little ability to comprehend how you cannot make blanket generalizations about groups of millions of people, which coincidentally is the root of why the genocide of the Palestinian people is being allowed to happen.

        • porkins@sh.itjust.works
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          You are falling for propaganda. The blood is on Hammas’ hands. They are in fact hiding in schools and hospitals. Israel has a right to defend itself.

      • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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        Your story is missing quite a bit.

        First of all, Jew refers to both a religion and ethnicity, but in this context (Israel) is almost exclusively ethnic.

        Palestinians are Jews (the religion), Christians and Muslims, not exclusively Muslim. The PLO is an explicitly religiously tolerant group whose logo was a menorah, cross and crescent moon.

        Hamas, the Muslim Palestinian extremist group, was primarily funded and supported by Israel to break PLO dominance of Palestinian politics, because fighting a religiously tolerant nationalist movement that had recently commited to non-violence was bad optics internationally.

        The Palestinians were forced at gunpoint to abandon their homes and move to Gaza and the West Bank during the Nakba in 1948.

        • porkins@sh.itjust.works
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          Less than 1% of Palestinians are Jews. 93% Muslim. 6% Christian. The homes in question were stolen in previous centuries from Jews and the society was in shambles. The people moved were half a million at most. Gaza and the West Bank are quite nice regions containing beaches and workable land. They had no representative government and were subject to the fallout of a war and a collapsed government. Given the circumstances, they made out with more than they were owed.

          Israel funding Hammas is a common misconception used as propaganda. It made concessions to try and help it reform, such as work visas. It was trying to keep the peace. Sure, there are factions in the Israel government that want to use Hamas as a wedge between a unified Palestine, but saying that it was straight up getting funding is skipping some nuance.

          • Sparlock@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Yikes that is some next level propaganda and misinformation you are spreading.

        • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
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          I mean, yeah they could? We literally annihilated entire civilizations of native americans, we stole this land.

          • kase@lemmy.world
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            Afaik, the people who did that are not around anymore. If they were, I’d say go for it, but I’m of the strong opinion that it’s not ok to kill millions of people for something their predecessors did.

              • sailingbythelee@lemmy.world
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                It is not at all true that other places outside of Europe were “calmer”, if by calm you mean peaceful.

                Asia: I’m sure you have heard of the original empires of Mesopotamia, like Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and others. They were absolutely brutal, had some of the first standing armies, and practically invented genocide on a mass scale. Then there is the Mongolian Empire and other steppe empires like the Golden Horde, all of them famous for industrial-scale mass slaughter. And, of course, there is the ethnic cleansing of most of present-day China by the Han people. In Japan, early mainland immigrants wiped out the Ainu. In India, you have the invasion by northern Aryan tribes who slaughtered and dominated the Dravidian people, the remnant of which are still in southern India and Sri Lanka. Those are just a few of the better known ones.

                Africa: There was all-conquering Egypt, of course, and many others south of the Sahara I’m sure, though they are less well-documented for obvious reasons.

                Americas: The Inca and the Aztec were significant conquering empires. We are limited by a lack of written language in most of the Americas, but it is well-documented both orally and archaeologically that North American tribes displaced one another with regularity.

                In terms of slavery…nearly every civilization prior to the industrial revolution used slave labour extensively, because that was the way to get work done before the advent of machines. The institution of slavery varied significantly across time and place, from the death sentence of working to death in Roman salt mines to well-educated slaves who were clerks and teachers. Slavery was a major Roman institution, but it was (and still is) rampant across Asia and Africa. The Americas also had slavery.

              • Ryan@programming.dev
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                So what, Japan just colonized most of Asia to spread zen vibes? Or, you know that time Ghengis Khan raped and pillaged his way all the way to Eastern Europe? Or, failing that the repeated wars between Egypt and the Hittites? Even the native Hawaiians fought wars between the islands prior to their colonization. Conquest, genocide and enslavement have been the human condition for all of history everywhere without exception.

                Preemptive edit: This doesn’t excuse any of it and we are finally, maybe barely moving past it, but the only reason it seems like this is a western phenomenon is because the most recently globally dominant nations are from there.

          • sailingbythelee@lemmy.world
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            It is funny that you would say that right after writing that native Americans would be justified in killing Americans. You see the irony, right?

      • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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        blows me away that many left-leaning individuals want to help support their backwards culture of misogyny

        If you’re left-leaning too, I’d suggest looking at this through the wider lens of European/US Imperialism/Capitalism/Colonialism and how it keeps the global south from making economic or societal progress even after colonialism supposedly ‘ended’ in 1997 (not that long ago). Second Thought, Hakim, and Yugopnik make great videos on the topic.

        Religion does certainly play a role in misogyny, but it’s nothing that can’t be overcome in a non-oppressive society imo.

      • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        Palestinians are refugees

        Every major country recognizes Palestine as a country except for the US and Israel.

        Edit: this is horribly wrong, all of western europe holds the same position as the US, and the number of countries that recognize palestine is padded with a high number of countries that aren’t relevant to the conflict at all.

        You’re right that other Muslim majority countries do not want to take in Palestinians as refugees, but you’re wrong that they are naturally refugees. They have homes, and half of their homes were bones into oblivion in these past few months.

        • porkins@sh.itjust.works
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          Please read up on the Six Day War where Egypt, Syria, and Jordan were attempting to blockade Israel from the Red Sea and mobilized their troops in the Sinai, posturing themselves for all out war with Israel. The result was that Israel gained Gaza and the West Bank. Therefore, the Palestinians are refugees of war. Israel has worked to broker peace over and over again, but the Palestinians keep blowing shit up. Many muslims simply don’t value human life. It’s not an apartheid. It’s a blockade to protect Israel from crazy people.

          EDIT: I should also add that in the years after the war, including the Camp David Accords, Israel offerered to return the territory to Egypt, as long as Egypt could ensure that the Palestinians wouldn’t send rockets at Israel, since that would be considered Egypt attacking Israel. Egypt declined many times. It didn’t want Palestine back. You are all for the self-determination of Palestine, but when their elected body declares war on Israel and Israel responds in kind, that is when you have issues. They reap what they sew.

          • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            A refugee is someone who is actively fleeing a conflict. Who is essentially homeless and looking for refuge in a country that isnt their home.

            This doesnt describe Palestinians. They have homes (again, until like last month when Israel forcefully displaced them and then destroyed Northern Gaza).

            The narrative that all Palestinians are violent extremists is convenient for Israel. Thats why Israel has directly and indirectly supported Hamas and disenfranchised the other state and parties of Palestine that were more likely to find an agreement.

            • porkins@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              Here is a great copypasta on all this:

              DNA studies have determined that ALL biological Jews of the various subdivisions–Ashkenazim, Mizrahim and Sephardim–are related to one another. ALL biological Jews have also been determined to have genetic roots in the Southern Levant and are related to the Canaanites.

              Archaeology has repeatedly confirmed that the Jewish peoples originated in the Southern Levant thousands of years prior to Arabs leaving the Arabian Peninsula. Archaeology has also repeatedly confirmed that the presence of Arabs and the Arabic language in the Middle East and North Africa everywhere outside of the Arabian Peninsula, including the Southern Levant where Israel is situated, is the result of past imperialist colonialist expansions and forced assimilations.

              Historic records repeatedly emphasize not only the Indigenous presence of Jews in the Southern Levant, but the fact that there remained a number of them in the Southern Levant to meet every outside group which came into the region, including Arabs. Even Arabic and Ottoman Empire historical records confirm that Jews were in the Southern Levant before them.

              Case in point, the historic and linguistic origins of the name, “Jew.” European languages call Jews “Jude,” “Jew,” etc, because they are shortened derivations from “Judean.” A “Judean” is a native of “Judea” which was one the historic Jewish nations in the Southern Levant which predates Arabs arriving in the Southern Levant. Even the terms that Arabic speakers use for Jews, “Yahud” and “Yahudi,” testify that Jews are the Indigenous population of the Southern Levant. As there is no “J” sound in Hebrew, the actual name of “Judea” was “Yahuda.” A “Yahud” or “Yahudi” is a native of the historical Southern Levantine nation of “Yahuda.” Descendants of Egyptian Mizrahim Jews, frequently get called “Yahud” by Arabs in the US despite not publicly wearing any outward signs because they recognize the phenotype.

              Rome–an imperialist colonialist power not indigenous to the Southern Levant–erasing the linkages between Jews–ie Judeans–and their homeland–Judea–by renaming it Syria Palaestina after the Bar Kochba Revolt to punish the Jews–ie Judeans. Then, the British Empire–an imperialist colonialist power not indigenous to the Southern Levant–renamed the region, Palestine.

              Also reference the historical documentation of the Ottoman Empire–a Middle Eastern Imperialist colonialist power–which records that they shipped European converts to Islam from the Balkans, Russia and Ukraine to the Southern Levant as colonialists where they ended up assimilated into Arabic language and culture. It ignores the historical records, genealogies, genetic tests and even surnames which indicates that Palestinian Arabs’ families came from various parts of the Middle East and North Africa. This can be seen with such surnames as “al Masri” and “al Misr” which indicates that their families were from Egypt. It can be seen in surnames such as “al Tikrit” and “al Mosul” which indicate that those families came from the cities of Tikrit and Mosul in Iraq. It also can be seen in the surname “al Hind” which indicates that those families came from the India-Pakistan-Bangladesh region. It can be seen in clan names which have been documented to have originated on the Arabian Peninsula in what is now Saudi Arabia, such as “Erakat” and “Harbi.” And this email ignores the historical records which documents that a minority of the founding population of today’s Palestinian Arabs were Indigenous Jews, Indigenous Christians, Indigenous Druze and the descendants of Roman and European Crusader colonists whom were forcibly converted to Islam and forcibly assimilated into Arabic language and culture by past imperialist colonialism.

              Indigenous Jews were illegally ethnic cleansed from what is now Palestinian Authority controlled territory and eastern Jerusalem during Jordan’s illegal invasion and illegal occupation despite the Indigenous Jews being there for centuries before Arabs left the Arabian Peninsula. It ignores the fact that Jordan illegally replaced the Indigenous Jews there with its Arab citizens whom its rulers decided to exile. It ignores the fact that Egypt during it’s illegal invasion and illegal occupation of Gaza treated Gaza like an open air prison by exiling its prisoners there.

              Hamas and the Palestinian Authority violate human rights, the women’s rights, the LGBTQ rights and the religous rights of their citizens. They do not allow elections. Villages like that of US Representative Rashida Harbi Tlaib’s grandmother aren’t allowed to choose their own village leaders, the Palestinian Authority chooses them. And what they call “Israeli occupation” isn’t occupying their territories. It is controlling border regions to keep weapons away from them and terrorists out of Israeli territory. Otherwise, Israel lets Hamas and the Palestinian Authority control their own territories.

              Historical documentation records that Jews from all of the major divisions of the Jewish peoples–Ashkenazim, Sephardim and Mizrahim–had ties with the Jews whom never left the Southern Levant. Ties which included intermarriage and moving there to join their Southern Levantine relatives centuries before modern Israel was refounded. It ignores the historic documentation which records that the British Empire–which is not indigenous to the Southern Levant–in addition to allowing Arabs to illegally immigrate to the “Territory of Palestine” where they weren’t indigenous also actively tried to prevent Jews from joining their Indigenous relatives in the Territory despite the international mandate which recognized the Territory as the Jewish homeland and required the British to facilitate Jewish resettlement there as the returning Indigenous population, not Arabs. Thus, it is the Palestinian Arabs whom are in the Southern Levant as the result of imperialist colonialism, not Jews. Jews are there as the result of the Zionist Indigenous rights movement despite imperialist colonialism.

              Human rights are afforded to its citizens by Israel. Israel protects religious rights, women’s rights and LGBTQ rights. By way of contrast, this email ignores the fact that all of the Arab powers surrounding Israel, including the Palestinian Authority and Hamas in Gaza, persecutes LGBTQ and non-Muslims which has resulted in refugees seeking asylum in Israel. It ignores the violations of women’s rights in the Arab powers surrounding Israel. And it ignores the Apartheid ethnic cleansing of JIMENA (Jews Indigenous to the Middle East and North Africa), such as my Egyptian Jewish ancestors, from Arab nations and from the parts of Gaza and from the parts of Palestinian Authority controlled territories which Indigenous Jews once lived in for centuries before Arabs left the Arabian Peninsula.

              Over half of Israel’s Jewish population consists of JIMENA whose families were forcibly, and in some cases genocidally, expelled from Muslim countries. It ignores the Apartheid restrictions which non-Muslims have to live under in Arab nations.

              You can’t ignore the genocide that Assad’s Syria committed against a Palestinian Arab refugee camp. It ignores the Apartheid restrictions which Arab nations place on Palestinian Arab refugees in their countries which deny them paths to citizenship, the rights to movement within the countries, the rights to certain educational training and the rights to work in certain careers. It also ignores the fact that Israel allows Arab–Christian and Muslim–citizens to live where they choose, worship as they choose as long as they respect the rights of others, be educated as they choose, work in the careers of their choice, serve in the military and serve in the government.

              There is a history of the Arab world’s wars with Israel. It was the Arab nations whom forced Palestinian Arabs to leave the region and become refugees after the Arab powers attacked Israel. Israel assimilated the JIMENA whom were expelled from Muslim countries–whom incidentally outnumbered the Palestinian Arabs whom became refugees. The Arab nations whom forced Palestinian Arabs to flee and become refugees have refused to assimilate those refugees and actively persecutes them.

              The long history of Palestinian Arabs committing acts of violence against Jews which predates the re-founding of modern Israel and continues until today. Hajj Amin al Husseini, a former Jerusalem Mufti, incited violent attacks on Jews during the 1920s and 1930s. And during WW2, he joined the Nazis, talked the Nazis into killing European Jews instead of deporting them to what is now Israel, became the Nazi’s Arab world propagandist and led an all Bosnian SS Einsatzgruppen unit which rounded up and mass shot Eastern European Jews. And this instructor’s email ignores the genocidal statement of intent against Jews worldwide in Hamas’s founding charter.

              Your words could be perceived to be incitement against Israel and Jews by mischaracterizing the Zionist Indigenous rights movement of Jews as colonialism and imperialism when all of the evidence supports the Jews as being the Indigenous population of the region, not the Palestinian Arabs. By mischaracterizing the Palestinian Arabs as the indigenous population of the region when all of the evidence supports that they are there as the result of past imperialist colonialism, this instructor’s email creates the false impression that Jews are the colonialist aggressors in the region as the result of imperialism against whom an indigenous population is resisting. When in reality, it is the Jews whom are the Indigenous population whom is resisting the aggression of colonialist Palestinian Arabs in the region as the result of multiple instances of imperialist colonialism.