If you truly believe anarchism is not against the state, I genuinely have no idea what to tell you. I seriously hope this is a conscious attempt at gaslighting and you’re not THAT confidently incorrect.

In the remote case you are actually interested in anarchism, I’ll leave something here for you.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-state-its-historic-role

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/mikhail-bakunin-what-is-authority

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anark-the-state-is-counter-revolutionary

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-an-anarchist-programme

You should, if you intend to keep thinking yourself an authority on anarchism to actual anarchists while also keeping any sense of integrity, at the very least, read this one, it’s only 50 pages.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-anarchy

ing me. I will leave with this:

Hey folx, I have to move houses, will not have internet for a while, so I’mma disengage. Despite the usual smug and mocky tone, I thank you for actually engaging and not just banning me. I will leave with this:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-post-scarcity-anarchism-book#toc27

This chapter and the one after it are only slightly longer than On Authority. Read it if you are interested.

“Both ‘anti-tankie’ and anti-statist” is redundant. You cannot be anti-statist and not “anti-tankie”, because “anti-tankie” is opposing socialist states. Anarchists only criticise socialist states more often when they’re talking with people who defend and excuse them, which is why you see the assymetry. In a regular anarchist community of mostly anarchists, both online and especially in real life orgs, it’s actually quite the opposite.

I have nothing to prove to you, and it’s clear you aren’t listening and just repeating all the memorized talking points ingrained inside. Believe whatever you want.

anarchism has its own history with its own principles and theoretical foundation embedded in either a historically utopian or marxian conception of capitalism

This is what I’m talking about. You don’t get to say what “trve anarchism” is because you don’t actually know it. Anarchism has nothing to do with Marxism, not even ancoms. They’re entirely separate philosophies that view the world in different ways, both use material analysis and both stand against capitalism, but that does not mean they share a common goal, or have common ancestry. Have you actually read any anarchist theory? Or just On Authority and Anarchism or Socialism?

if a so-called anarchist advances politics that preserves capitalism

This once again proves you have no idea what you’re talking about. Anti-marxist anarchists are treated as actual terrorists by the state and capitalism. They’re among the most militant anti-capitalist groups on earth. The italian FAI bombs prisons while the italian ML party writes about needing critical support for ISIS in a 1998 looking ass website. Not to bring up the FARJ and the anarchists in Iran literally risking their lives as we speak. But you, from the comfort of your chair, disregard them to delude yourself into thinking what makes you comfortable.

But sure, carry on after talking to me, thinking you stand for left unity, and don’t worry your pretty little head about all of these groups and people that have done more against capitalism than you or I ever have. They’re not real, I assure you. They are surely just LARPing. You and the people you agree with are the one true and only based socialism bringers.

That’s a more fair claim, excuse me for misunderstanding.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what specifically are you asking about? Do you mean how to resist agression from states? How to avoid being co-opted or hijacked?

If an anarchist is entirely willing to drop the anti-statism why should they even call themselves anarchist? This isn’t some obscure niche issue, this is literally the entire core of the philosophy. Would you call a marxist entirely willing to drop the call for a DotP or materialism a marxist?

“Not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump!”

Are you a nationalist? Why the fuck should you even care? Two bourgeois states going to war to destroy themselves, and the only ones harmed in the process are the proletarians of both countries. You should be supporting and helping them instead of LARPing state worship on the internet. I don’t condemn the Russian state resisting NATO, but I am not going to support capitalists in their shitty capitalist wars. If that makes me some buzzword you feel very angry about, you are free to call me that.

What are you on? Revolutionary states killing anarchists is just an objective historical fact. I’m not even talking about the common stories brought up about Makhnovshchina or Kronstadt, every single revolutionary state has done it. You can look it up. Is part of the “left unity compromise” to blind yourself to actual things that happened?

This is the usual tactic of attacking your use of specific words instead of the essence of what you’re actually saying. Use inspect element and replace “statist” with the word you’d like me to use instead. I’m not gonna do that for you.

Anarchism isn’t baseless or pulled out of anyone’s ass. You can disagree with it, but to claim literally no material analysis of the state and/or its consequences, or the relations and dynamics of power and hierarchy exists, is just plain ignorance, no different from a conservative feeling the authority to look down on marxists when they have only skimmed the communist manifesto. If you are interested I can link you to some things, if you are not, just own up to it and say so.

it’s usage is always a signal that its user is either a delusional liberal or an online sectarian not remotely interested in real world politics

That’s just what you want to believe.

The proof is in the fact plenty of ML groups successfully organize alongside street level anarchist groups all over the US, which isn’t exactly a country kind to socialists of any kind

You don’t have to stop being hostile to MLism to work with MLs. If there are common short term goals, it’s most often pragmatic to, especially in countries where there isn’t an active leftist threat at all like the US. That does not mean the anarchists are just perfectly fine being buddies with the MLs, nor that when the collaboration is over they won’t criticise and call them out again.

Using terms like tankie is a clear cut signal that person is terminally online and as a result couldn’t define anarchism to save their lives

Once again, that’s just what you believe. That’s nothing but a preconception. You’re telling yourself that so you can give yourself a free pass to blindly disregard anyone who says a word, and not have to listen to what they have to say. I’ve actually organized in real life both with pluralist orgs and with directly anti-marxist groups, full of people who despise all of you. Whether the real life anarchists I’ve done shit with say “authoritarian” “statist” or “tankie” or just “ML” has no bearing on their understanding of philosophy. Some are very new and don’t get things yet, some have been anarchists for longer than I have been alive, and have actually gone to jail for their anarchism.

You can disagree with and even condemn the actions of anti-marxist anarchist organizations just fine, but to try to say that they somehow aren’t “the TRUE ones” is just delusion.

That is nothing but an assumption then, given that, once again, I have never spoken about MLism in this thread.

Funnily enough it is the statists that most often kill the anti-statists “in real life” but okay, you do you buddy.

I mean I can literally define what an anarchist is because there’s a historical and theoretical structure to anarchism and if it isn’t followed you’re simply not an anarchist

Fair enough, that’s true.

Regardless, saying “tankie” indicates nothing of your understanding of anarchist philosophy. You have to actually look at what the person is saying. Some definitely are simply larping (like vaushites and such), some have been committed anarchists for decades. I’m not sure if you’re so enthusiastic about left unity you want to believe “anti-tankie” anarchists are “just not the true real and good ones”, or if you just want to discredit anyone that uses the word, but regardless it’s just a blind blanket statement.

I support the people of Russia and Ukraine in their struggles with war, starvation, loss of home and general suffering caused by the Russian and Ukranian/NATO states, which I do not support because I don’t support any state because I am an anarchist.

Okay, you were “owning me” because you thought I self identify as “anti-tankie”, everything I said still fully and completely applies.

Do you think I don’t have a principled disagreement too? Or why are you bringing that up? I’ve never said anything against MLism per se in this thread so far. Once again I am merely pointing out the dynamic that happens in “left unity”, and what people who call for it expect, aware of it or not.

Who said anything about NATO? Do you just have an imaginary anarchist in your head to be mad about? Do you think an anarchist is someone who watches a lot of Vaush?

When did I ever say it was my priority? You told me I am “anti-tankie”, I assumed it meant I was against those states and I said yes. An anarchist is against states, even revolutionary states. Do you expect an anarchist to abandon their anti-statism if some state challenges America? If yes then tell me, would you abandon your socialism if some fascist nation challenged America?

You don’t get to define what is a “true anarchist” and what isn’t, much less exclusively based off of if they use a word you don’t like or not. I don’t care about your respect, I am merely pointing out a dynamic that constantly happens in this community and those similar to it.

“You believe in what you believe in! You are very owned.”

If I didn’t oppose the USSR and China, and by proxy, those who vehemently defend and excuse them, I once again, would not be an anarchist at all.