Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful youā€™ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cutā€™nā€™paste it into its own post ā€” thereā€™s no quota for posting and the bar really isnā€™t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many ā€œesotericā€ right wing freaks, but thereā€™s no appropriate sneer-space for them. Iā€™m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged ā€œculture criticsā€ who write about everything but understand nothing. Iā€™m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. Theyā€™re inescapable at this point, yet I donā€™t see them mocked (as much as they should be)

Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldnā€™t be surgeons because they didnā€™t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I canā€™t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Semi-obligatory thanks to @dgerard for starting this.)

      • skillissuer
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        13 hours ago

        so i figured out what their naloxone synthesis is, itā€™s based on this paper https://sci-hub.se/10.1002/adsc.201300284 they say itā€™s two step, itā€™s not two step, itā€™s 6 steps in two critical one-pot sequences. paper starts with oxymorphone and they start with oxycodone for some reason, thatā€™s one step extra. that transformation requires handling BBr3 which is nasty but clean or NaSEt which is also nasty but safer, but also requires column chromatography for purification. it still can fail in a way that gives products of activity opposite than intended. requires hard to get and rather more on expensive side reagents like vinylmagnesium bromide and burgess reagent, both require strictly anhydrous conditions to work. vinylmagnesium bromide and even solvent used with it (THF) will destroy that shitty PLA lid. final purification in paper requires column chromatography as well. not to mention elephant in the room, that if counterfeit oxy pills are used that contain fentanyl instead it gets you either nothing or fentanyl

        what is in paper

        what they have shown

        this synthesis is fucking garbled and itā€™s only one of many steps

        same with cabotegravir

        theyā€™re also using advanced intermediates that could be very hard to source, because this kind of stuff is made internally in company only, particularly that pyridone on left

        and thatā€™s just naloxone. nothing particularly hard if you know what are you doing and have right starting materials. commercial synthesis is entirely different btw, and this is partially to make purifications easier and to use robust, high yielding chemistry using cheaper starting materials. they also want to make cabotegravir, mifepristone and fucking gene therapy, and diy hrt (they never cared about it before??) which was already a thing wayy before they got to it, it involved shipping steroids out of Ukraine iirc and it worked because no garage synthesis was involved at all. at least they admitted that making monoclonal antibodies is probably out of their reach, how merciful of them. and thatā€™s just first 15min

        it looks like theyā€™re desperately pivoting for attention left and right, i see there nothing but grift

        when you have to consider what this arduino jar is even capable of, just taking a look at that naloxone synthesis makes it absolutely fucking useless. it canā€™t replace sep funnel, rotovap, chromatographic column; it canā€™t provide inert atmosphere, required in steps 3 and 5 of original paper, it canā€™t survive refluxing THF because lid will dissolve or melt and cave in, required in step 6 and whatever refluxing solvent is used in step giving oxymorphone from oxycodone, because they neglected to show it, and even if it did, thereā€™s no condenser on top. it really is juicero of backyard chemistry

        update: yeah nah what the fuck laminar flow fumehood is wildly out of reach of normal people, making sterile injectables in a garage is not a safe option for 99.99% of people

        update 2: analytical techniques included: homemade raman, melting point measurement, dancesafe drug test suite. and fucking taste test, going all the way to 1890s best practices i see. none of these are good at detecting impurities, it will only be good to detect if chinese vendor sent you wrong stuff and itā€™s only if it was pure

        update 3: WEā€™RE MAKING HRT! looks inside: weā€™re buying APIs from India/China and compounding them in garage with zero real qc, also weā€™ll solve HRT with garage gene therapy, promise, maybe, some years from now, donate in meantime

        • Soyweiser@awful.systems
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          3 hours ago

          Thanks. The ending where he goes ā€œhow would I deal with company patent lawyers? Well flips them offā€ is a bit annoying as well. I heard some make diy E makers and distributers were jailed already. So setting up some assistance system for that would be nice (esp after you made it worse by making it easier for the courts to call them terrorists, sure the term has degraded but law wise this has consequences. I really hope he at least got some trans people involved before he started this (and i also really hope im wrong about the risks here, as trans people should get all the meds they want)).

        • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
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          10 hours ago

          I read through this with my wife who actually did a whole course of organic chemistry, pre-med, etc. Her reaction to your criticisms was largely ā€œof course you would have to do that and thatā€™d be a pain in the ass but itā€™s definitely doable.ā€ And I feel like thatā€™s probably true but at the same time as a reasonably smart dude this is the first time Iā€™ve heard the majority of these words.

          It feels like theyā€™re reacting to the same tendency in tech culture that Iā€™ve complained about before where specialized knowledge and domain expertise are treated like arcane revelations from beyond. Itā€™s not that your average person is incapable of understanding or going through the relevant processes; Cs ,as the saying goes, get degrees and Iā€™m sure many of the labs actually doing this work at scale are staffed largely by those C students. But itā€™s also worth acknowledging that there is a level of investment in time and resources required to actually do it and this kind of ā€œyou have nothing to lose but your pharmacological chainsā€ rhetoric is dramatically underselling how difficult those processes are and how bad the consequences can be if you screw it up. Anyone who wants to try should first read The Iliad, the Oedipus cycle, and at least one other epic-sized meditation on hubris. And the once youā€™ve forged ahead read the relevant books on actually following the process for the love of God.