how redirecting capital from the capital class to the working class is anything other than socialism.
Theres this concept, where the Capitalists are expropriated from and reproletarianized back into the working class whom in turn seize full control of the means of production and abolish the capitalist governments in order to build governments of/by/for the working class. Thats called building Socialism, and to do anything other than working towards the goal of liquidating the enemies of the working class is to do anything other than fighting for socialism.
Taking money from the rich and simply redistributing it a la your “profit sharing” does not solve the fundamental contradiction between the capitalist class and the working class as it does nothing to change the economic structure the two exist in opposition to each other. If nothing else. all you’re advocating for is prolonging the existence of Capitalism and fighting against the interests of your own class by advocating for maintaining the cruel system of Capitalism but trying to disguise the worst visages it wears with smiley face emojis
No lol that’s just welfare - something that can be done regardless of what economic system is in place. Now if you want a discussion on a contrastive analysis of the class dynamics of welfare under a Socialist and Capitalist system, that’d be an interesting topic to research into.
I’m sorry you just did the fallacy-fallacy and your entire argument and opinion are now disregarded. Please return to the Rochester School of Rhetoric to obtain your speaking license.
Dude you still don’t stop worker exploitation, don’t solve the contradiction of working and capitalist classes, don’t end imperialism or colonialism (social democracy outsources exploitation to the third world), and just set up a future capitalist takeover and descent into neoliberal hell.
You really haven’t read any theory. At all. Did you take one silly phrase and think you had something?! Your politics are immature and uninformed. Please read theory.
Because they don’t own the means of production. Socialism isn’t just redirecting capital, it is about eliminating it and the ruling class. Profit sharing is a bandaid on the grand canyon; workers are still exploited by the capital class. Socialism is a completely and total shift so large and threatening to the ruling class that it can only happen through revolution, it’s way bigger than sharing profits
A tankie is a hardline ML in your opinion yes? Did you know most “tankies” read theory to better understand the world and are definitely more knowledgeable than “socialists” (by which you mean libs who aren’t actually socialist like yourself)
What to you is a tankie. Are they in the room with us right now? Anyway I’m disengaging because you’re clearly a debatebro (and lib) who can’t argue in good faith. but I’ll leave you a link to hexbears policy posting bulletins
I agree. This is why I caution more nuanced takes on economics. A lot of people on Hexbear think a revolution occuring in the US is going to look like 1917, but really it’s going to be more like 1923. Take a look at the closest we have been to a “revolution” since 1776.
I’m not really in the business of sourcing things to users from an instance that is basically a Sealioning factory.
Ultimately, I will get told I don’t understand economics until I’ve read all three volumes of Das Kapital. Ironically, it’s no different that libertarians saying you don’t understand economics unless you’ve read the works of Milton Friedman, or more importantly, Ayn Rand.
No, it’s literally socialism 101 so I wouldn’t expect a tankie to understand.
I’ve read all three volumes of capital around a month ago because I had an autistic urge to do it
tell me with full seriousness that you’ve even glanced at it
This is the worst attempt at Sealioning that I have ever seen.
Please tell me with full seriousness how redirecting capital from the capital class to the working class is anything other than socialism.
Theres this concept, where the Capitalists are expropriated from and reproletarianized back into the working class whom in turn seize full control of the means of production and abolish the capitalist governments in order to build governments of/by/for the working class. Thats called building Socialism, and to do anything other than working towards the goal of liquidating the enemies of the working class is to do anything other than fighting for socialism.
Taking money from the rich and simply redistributing it a la your “profit sharing” does not solve the fundamental contradiction between the capitalist class and the working class as it does nothing to change the economic structure the two exist in opposition to each other. If nothing else. all you’re advocating for is prolonging the existence of Capitalism and fighting against the interests of your own class by advocating for maintaining the cruel system of Capitalism but trying to disguise the worst visages it wears with smiley face emojis
Ok. But you have to agree it’s a lot closer to socialism than the status quo.
No lol that’s just welfare - something that can be done regardless of what economic system is in place. Now if you want a discussion on a contrastive analysis of the class dynamics of welfare under a Socialist and Capitalist system, that’d be an interesting topic to research into.
I guess in your universe there’s no true socialism, eh?
Nope, the Soviet Union was Socialist. All other AES projects are also moving towards becoming socialist as well in their own distinctive manner.
It doesn’t change you’re a fucking liberal that thinks socialism is when you redistribute wealth without changing the existing economic system.
There are no pure economic systems that currently exist or have ever existed.
I wouldn’t expect users from Hexbear to understand nuance.
whataboutism
That’s not whataboutism, that was the original argument.
You guys are the worst trolls in the fediverse.
I’m sorry you just did the fallacy-fallacy and your entire argument and opinion are now disregarded. Please return to the Rochester School of Rhetoric to obtain your speaking license.
Ok I’ll keep that in mind.
DUDE YOU ARE LITERALLY JUST MAKING UP SOCIAL DEMOCRACY AGAIN
you definitely have not read a single page of marxist theory
Social democracy sounds great, sign me up.
Dude you still don’t stop worker exploitation, don’t solve the contradiction of working and capitalist classes, don’t end imperialism or colonialism (social democracy outsources exploitation to the third world), and just set up a future capitalist takeover and descent into neoliberal hell.
You really haven’t read any theory. At all. Did you take one silly phrase and think you had something?! Your politics are immature and uninformed. Please read theory.
Ok let me know how your method works out because right now it’s neither.
The method has worked, is working, and will work
you won’t see it though, I hope to kill people like you
If course you would, like a good little authoritarian.
In my ideal society I’d give people like you the freedom you deserve.
Because they don’t own the means of production. Socialism isn’t just redirecting capital, it is about eliminating it and the ruling class. Profit sharing is a bandaid on the grand canyon; workers are still exploited by the capital class. Socialism is a completely and total shift so large and threatening to the ruling class that it can only happen through revolution, it’s way bigger than sharing profits
But you have to agree it’s a lot closer to socialism than the status quo.
You sure went from “it’s socialism 101, you stupid tankie!” to “well it’s a marginal improvement on the status quo…” really quickly.
It’s actually quite a massive departure from the status quo, really.
K. Doesn’t change my point.
It quite literally does, the operative word being “marginal”
No, it is the status quo. What you’re describing is capitalism. It is not closer to socialism.
Please link me to the careers page of these plentiful jobs that engage in substantive profit sharing for all working class employees.
Profits go to the capital class currently, that’s the whole problem, right?
You’ve never heard the term “stock option”?
Lol I guess you people never have had actual jobs if you believe that is remotely common for the working class.
A tankie is a hardline ML in your opinion yes? Did you know most “tankies” read theory to better understand the world and are definitely more knowledgeable than “socialists” (by which you mean libs who aren’t actually socialist like yourself)
No, but one of the top posts in the “tankiverse” recently was saying that places like North Korea are the bastions of freedom.
More nuanced takes on communism, etc are done instances other than Hexbear and Lemmygrad.
Link me to a nuanced take please
What to you is a tankie. Are they in the room with us right now? Anyway I’m disengaging because you’re clearly a debatebro (and lib) who can’t argue in good faith. but I’ll leave you a link to hexbears policy posting bulletins
A tankie is a supporter of an authoritarian country that either is, or presents itself as, a left wing.
Pretty unambiguous definition.
You need to define authoritarian in a way that doesn’t include basically every country for that to be a reasonable definition.
Jails dissidents without a modicum of due process.
Yeah it’s a problem in a lot of countries, welcome to the “status quo”.
So all countries then.
So your definition of tankie is “a supporter of country that either is, or presents itself, as left wing.”
I thought it was implied it meant socialist or communist.
Thank you for acknowledging that it is basically useless because it is just a thing states do.
Also fascists and other reactionary dissidents should be repressed when they try to organize.
I agree. This is why I caution more nuanced takes on economics. A lot of people on Hexbear think a revolution occuring in the US is going to look like 1917, but really it’s going to be more like 1923. Take a look at the closest we have been to a “revolution” since 1776.
Why does your opinion on the DPRK align with propaganda from a country that killed 20 percent of all Koreans to prevent a unified democratic Korea?
Why do you act like any one right of Karl Marx must be a dunce who blindly supports the global status quo?
You’re acting like it when you repeat American attitudes about the dprk.
Sometimes it be that way.
Source that isnt aligned with US interests?
I’m not really in the business of sourcing things to users from an instance that is basically a Sealioning factory.
Ultimately, I will get told I don’t understand economics until I’ve read all three volumes of Das Kapital. Ironically, it’s no different that libertarians saying you don’t understand economics unless you’ve read the works of Milton Friedman, or more importantly, Ayn Rand.
Have you considered not being or doing that?