28% of Americans rate economic conditions as excellent or good, a 9 percentage point increase from last April. And the share who say economic conditions will be worse a year from now has fallen during this timespan, from 46% to 33%.
I have two alternatives. Cornel West and Jill Stein. I can’t believe I can actually vote for Cornel fucking West this year. At least, if he gets on enough state ballots.
Voting third party is splitting the vote. Give me ranked choice voting and I’ll never make a Neo-lib one of my top choices. But, until then, it’s functionally a binary choice. And right-wingers toe the line, and their line is literal fascism. Easy choice. Shitty, but easy.
That’s entirely beside the point. You think the fascists are more likely to give you ranked choice than the neo-libs? This line of thinking is nonsensical past superficial idealism. What’s your alternative, the greater evil? You think that’s going to magically make the ever-so-sightly-further-left corporate party turn progressive?
How’d that work after 2016? If the wake-up-call strategy was going to work, that would’ve been the time. And oh look, we got a geriatric neo-liberal. Fun.
I’m not going to wager a potential fascist dictatorship against the pipe dream that choosing not to vote is a cheat code that what, unlocks the secret actual Leftist candidate? What’s the praxis here? This is like sovcit levels of batshit copium fantasy.
Edit: Downvotes, but no practical alternatives. Idealistic circle jerking.
Voting for anything but one of the top two parties is pointless, voting for the lesser evil is marginally better than voting for the greater evil, not voting is tacit approval of the greater evil. Please tell me, exactly, how does “not voting for the status quo” improve anything? Not rhetorical. I’m asking.
I need to tell you something: perfect is the mortal enemy of better. Both options are bad. One is objectively worse, if you don’t recognize that I assume you’re just part of Putin’s Geopolitik poisoning of the left, whether you know it or not.
Smugly refusing to participate doesn’t make the options better, it just makes it easier for the worse one to win.
Do you live in a swing state? Because I don’t. As far as I see it, voting third party won’t have any effect on the election, but might at least signal that I want change. It’s not like the popular vote matters in this country.
You think the fascists are more likely to give you ranked choice than the neo-libs?
Do you really think that eh neo-libs are more likely than the fascists? Talk about “nonsensical past superficial idealism.”
What’s your alternative, the greater evil? You think that’s going to magically make the ever-so-sightly-further-left corporate party turn progressive?
Better than your idea. Also, I don’t care about ‘decorum’ and ‘civility’, so there’s not much difference between the two parties in terms of evil; the harm hasn’t exactly been reduced under Biden.
I’m not going to wager a potential fascist dictatorship
You really think submissively voting for the blue fascist every election is going to stave off dictatorship?
What’s the praxis here?
What’s yours?
Anybody who votes for genocide Joe deserves Trump anyway.
Do you really think that eh neo-libs are more likely than the fascists?
Significantly? Hah, no. Mathematically? Yes, absolutely. Extremely unlikely vs. “Oh, you wanted to keep voting? Lol”
Better than your idea.
Which is? I’m waiting.
What’s the praxis here?
What’s yours?
Use every tool I have in the way it can be used. Voting for the lesser of two evils does not preclude literally any other action you could want to do.
Anybody who votes for genocide Joe deserves Trump anyway.
You think Trump would do less Palestinian genocide? He was pretty open about being very pro-Israel and very anti-Palestine. Genocide Trump would be substantially worse for Gaza, and also Ukraine too. That’s what “lesser of two evils” means: yes, Biden is awful, but the alternative is worse.
Until you can show me an actionable alternative, I assume you support increased genocide of Palestinians and genocide of Ukrainians. Because it’s a binary choice, and refusal to choose against any option is tacit approval of every option.
Genocide Trump would be substantially worse for Gaza
Don’t believe you.
and also Ukraine too
Don’t believe you
Okay? So you’re uniformed or just illiterate? Your beliefs mean nothing to me, the evidence already suggests you’re a Russian State propagandist, or you’ve fallen for one.
Because it’s a binary choice
Actually it’s not, and I know much it makes you fascists seethe that you can’t force me to vote for you.
It’s very simple math. If you can’t grasp it, maybe you should change your username to just “box”.
So long as you continue to antagonize every leftist who disagrees with you, all you’ll ever have is impotent idealism. What exactly is your plan of action? Where is your grassroots, your revolution, if every mathematically and politically literate leftist is a fascist to you?
I’m substantially left of center. Who do you think the proletariat are? How do you expect to mobilize them? How do you get three hundred million people to march in unison, when you call them all genocidal fascists? If they are all fascists, how do you ever hope to win?
Except you’re compromised by propaganda, specifically designed to weaken the left (and the US) in order to empower Russian oligarchs. I don’t expect you to propose any actual action. I expect you to continue to insist that letting Putin’s puppet win will somehow rid the world of billionaire oligarchs.
No, their platforms are vastly different. You could argue that Jill Stein and Cornel West are splitting each other’s votes, because they are very similar, but they are both worlds apart from Genocide Joe and Orange Hitler.
The mathematics of First Past the Post elections drastically disincentivizes third parties, to the point of irrelevance. The winner will be one of the top two choices, so the only rational strategy (primarily in swing states, because of the fuckery that is the Electoral College) is voting against the worse of those two option.
Which is to say: when looking at third party options, would those voters be more likely to vote for the worst of the two main options, or the second worst of the two main options? Those are the only two candidates from which splitting votes is pragmatically relevant.
The evidence suggests to me that Orange Hitler is worse than Genocide Joe, since Orange Hitler would likely enable at least the same amount, if not more, Palestinian genocide; while also actively engaging in Ukrainian genocide; while also enabling Project 2025, which fundamentally threatens the thin veneer of democracy the US does have. I am not an accelerationist, I do not think that the probability of revolution it offers is high enough to counteract the probability of descending into fascism.
If you live in a deep red/blue state, then sure, vote third party so they get more visibility and funding, and encourage others in your state to do the same. But otherwise, vote for the second worst of the two main options, and don’t encourage those in swing states to vote third party.
Unless you have a particular arrangement of reproductive organs. Or if you love someone who does.
Biden never passed a federal abortion law and let Roe V Wade get overturned with little to no worthwhile response.
Or if you have particular melanin expressing genes
The Biden admin consistently refuses to tackle problems with a focus on racial justice. Private prisons, migrant camps, oil pipelines on indigenous land all have flourished under Biden.
Or if you don’t subscribe to a certain deity
Butcher Biden is supporting a genocide on Palestinians for the crime of not being the right type of Jewish. Genocide Joe also does nothing to squash the extremist evangelicial movement, many of whom are in congress or state positions.
Or if you think your fellow workers should organize to oppose certain practices of your employer.
US labor laws have always been heavily biased against the workers. Again it was Biden admin who broke the strike of railworkers recently and milquetoast concessions. It was only the hard work of independent unions that workers managed to get concessions.
Or if you have certain medical concerns.
Socialism was made an evil ideology by congress. There is no universal public healthcare program nor price regulation of pharamseuticals. Narcotraficking remains a constant threat to people’s lives.
Or if you have certain precarious housing arrangements.
Biden has done virtually nothing for unhoused people and has instead pushed for bigger police budgets which are a greater threat to exacerbating homelessness than ending it.
Nice little poem which proves my point completely.
Unlike in functioning and prosperous nations like China with their superior socialist economic model and marxist foundations, the USA will continue to decline and terrorize its citizens as well as other nations abroad.
There was no democracy at any point in US history.
Not arguing against that, just pointing out that like it or not, for now that’s the one choice that we have, so concede loss today to fight tomorrow versus surrendering in which tomorrow will never come
Jerrod Kushner had a “peace plan” to kick the Palestinians out of what little they had left in the West Bank and move them to the middle of a barren desert. They dressed it up with “high tech industrial” and other buzz words to make it not look like a naked land grab. Obviously it didn’t get agreed to, but these are the type of people who were empowered under the Trump administration. They would get power again and they are better organized this time to carry out their agenda.
Okay, let’s rewind to the start of this recent spat of violence, 2023-10-07, when Hamas attacked Israeli citizens surrounding the Gaza Strip. Israel pretty quickly started a bombing campaign that has effectively destroyed northern Gaza. What it hasn’t achieved is its stated goal, eliminating Hamas, nor is it close. My guess is that the Biden administration is putting significant pressure on the Israeli government behind the scenes to scale down their invasion, let aid in, and end illegal settlement expansion. They might be using the weapons as a carrot.
Now think of what the Republicans would be doing in the same situation. Push back? No, they would be cheering from the sidelines like they are now. Illegal settlements? They never much worried about them before.
My guess is that the Biden administration is putting significant pressure on the Israeli government behind the scenes to scale down their invasion, let aid in, and end illegal settlement expansion. They might be using the weapons as a carrot.
This wild speculation, based on nothing.
Now think of what the Republicans would be doing in the same situation. Push back? No, they would be cheering from the sidelines like they are now. Illegal settlements? They never much worried about them before.
You are comparing fanfiction to different fanfiction here; none of this has any bearing to the facts on the ground.
I’m basing it on what I’ve heard out of Congressional Democrats and Republicans. The administration tends to keep tight lip, but Congress is freer with its thoughts. Take the quote from this article:
Some Democratic lawmakers have suggested further significant aid to Israel should be contingent on concrete promises by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government to curb civilian casualties in Gaza.
But… It’s demonstrably true that red MAGA will be worse soo… Got an actual alternative before November? No? Ok.
I have two alternatives. Cornel West and Jill Stein. I can’t believe I can actually vote for Cornel fucking West this year. At least, if he gets on enough state ballots.
Voting third party is splitting the vote. Give me ranked choice voting and I’ll never make a Neo-lib one of my top choices. But, until then, it’s functionally a binary choice. And right-wingers toe the line, and their line is literal fascism. Easy choice. Shitty, but easy.
Then why he fuck would they ever give you ranked choice?
That’s entirely beside the point. You think the fascists are more likely to give you ranked choice than the neo-libs? This line of thinking is nonsensical past superficial idealism. What’s your alternative, the greater evil? You think that’s going to magically make the ever-so-sightly-further-left corporate party turn progressive?
How’d that work after 2016? If the wake-up-call strategy was going to work, that would’ve been the time. And oh look, we got a geriatric neo-liberal. Fun.
I’m not going to wager a potential fascist dictatorship against the pipe dream that choosing not to vote is a cheat code that what, unlocks the secret actual Leftist candidate? What’s the praxis here? This is like sovcit levels of batshit copium fantasy.
Edit: Downvotes, but no practical alternatives. Idealistic circle jerking.
The least you can do is not vote for the status quo, but you won’t even do that.
Voting for anything but one of the top two parties is pointless, voting for the lesser evil is marginally better than voting for the greater evil, not voting is tacit approval of the greater evil. Please tell me, exactly, how does “not voting for the status quo” improve anything? Not rhetorical. I’m asking.
Oh boy, do I need to tell you something.
I need to tell you something: perfect is the mortal enemy of better. Both options are bad. One is objectively worse, if you don’t recognize that I assume you’re just part of Putin’s Geopolitik poisoning of the left, whether you know it or not.
Smugly refusing to participate doesn’t make the options better, it just makes it easier for the worse one to win.
Do you live in a swing state? Because I don’t. As far as I see it, voting third party won’t have any effect on the election, but might at least signal that I want change. It’s not like the popular vote matters in this country.
I live in a blue state. Using that same logic, voting for Biden here is pointless, because the state’s going to go to Biden anyway.
Do you really think that eh neo-libs are more likely than the fascists? Talk about “nonsensical past superficial idealism.”
Better than your idea. Also, I don’t care about ‘decorum’ and ‘civility’, so there’s not much difference between the two parties in terms of evil; the harm hasn’t exactly been reduced under Biden.
You really think submissively voting for the blue fascist every election is going to stave off dictatorship?
What’s yours?
Anybody who votes for genocide Joe deserves Trump anyway.
Significantly? Hah, no. Mathematically? Yes, absolutely. Extremely unlikely vs. “Oh, you wanted to keep voting? Lol”
Which is? I’m waiting.
Use every tool I have in the way it can be used. Voting for the lesser of two evils does not preclude literally any other action you could want to do.
You think Trump would do less Palestinian genocide? He was pretty open about being very pro-Israel and very anti-Palestine. Genocide Trump would be substantially worse for Gaza, and also Ukraine too. That’s what “lesser of two evils” means: yes, Biden is awful, but the alternative is worse.
Until you can show me an actionable alternative, I assume you support increased genocide of Palestinians and genocide of Ukrainians. Because it’s a binary choice, and refusal to choose against any option is tacit approval of every option.
deleted by creator
Well I got bad news for you, the odds are zero either way.
??? You even need me to tell you your own idea?
What are you doing other than voting?
Both evils are equivalent (and really they’re the same evil.)
He certainly wouldn’t do more. Also listen to yourself; you’re literally justifying supporting genocide.
Don’t believe you.
Don’t believe you
Yes, I’m well aware that people who say it mean that “the evil things I’m imagining Trump will do are worse than the actual things Biden is doing.”
Oh, we’re doing this now? “I assume you support eating babies and killing kittens, thus making me the more virtuous!”
Actually it’s not, and I know much it makes you fascists seethe that you can’t force me to vote for you.
If you vote for Genocide Joe Biden, you deserve every horror you imagine Trump will unleash on you.
Voting is one more thing than you.
Okay? So you’re uniformed or just illiterate? Your beliefs mean nothing to me, the evidence already suggests you’re a Russian State propagandist, or you’ve fallen for one.
It’s very simple math. If you can’t grasp it, maybe you should change your username to just “box”.
So long as you continue to antagonize every leftist who disagrees with you, all you’ll ever have is impotent idealism. What exactly is your plan of action? Where is your grassroots, your revolution, if every mathematically and politically literate leftist is a fascist to you?
I’m substantially left of center. Who do you think the proletariat are? How do you expect to mobilize them? How do you get three hundred million people to march in unison, when you call them all genocidal fascists? If they are all fascists, how do you ever hope to win?
Except you’re compromised by propaganda, specifically designed to weaken the left (and the US) in order to empower Russian oligarchs. I don’t expect you to propose any actual action. I expect you to continue to insist that letting Putin’s puppet win will somehow rid the world of billionaire oligarchs.
No, their platforms are vastly different. You could argue that Jill Stein and Cornel West are splitting each other’s votes, because they are very similar, but they are both worlds apart from Genocide Joe and Orange Hitler.
The mathematics of First Past the Post elections drastically disincentivizes third parties, to the point of irrelevance. The winner will be one of the top two choices, so the only rational strategy (primarily in swing states, because of the fuckery that is the Electoral College) is voting against the worse of those two option.
Which is to say: when looking at third party options, would those voters be more likely to vote for the worst of the two main options, or the second worst of the two main options? Those are the only two candidates from which splitting votes is pragmatically relevant.
The evidence suggests to me that Orange Hitler is worse than Genocide Joe, since Orange Hitler would likely enable at least the same amount, if not more, Palestinian genocide; while also actively engaging in Ukrainian genocide; while also enabling Project 2025, which fundamentally threatens the thin veneer of democracy the US does have. I am not an accelerationist, I do not think that the probability of revolution it offers is high enough to counteract the probability of descending into fascism.
If you live in a deep red/blue state, then sure, vote third party so they get more visibility and funding, and encourage others in your state to do the same. But otherwise, vote for the second worst of the two main options, and don’t encourage those in swing states to vote third party.
Neither candidate will fundamentally change anything. The US has always been an unsustainable broken oligarchy based on robbing others.
This is just the consequences of such a system, a slow painful decline.
Unless you have a particular arrangement of reproductive organs. Or if you love someone who does.
Or if you have particular melanin expressing genes.
Or if you don’t subscribe to a certain deity.
Or if you think your fellow workers should organize to oppose certain practices of your employer.
Or if you have certain medical concerns.
Or if you have certain precarious housing arrangements.
Biden never passed a federal abortion law and let Roe V Wade get overturned with little to no worthwhile response.
The Biden admin consistently refuses to tackle problems with a focus on racial justice. Private prisons, migrant camps, oil pipelines on indigenous land all have flourished under Biden.
Butcher Biden is supporting a genocide on Palestinians for the crime of not being the right type of Jewish. Genocide Joe also does nothing to squash the extremist evangelicial movement, many of whom are in congress or state positions.
US labor laws have always been heavily biased against the workers. Again it was Biden admin who broke the strike of railworkers recently and milquetoast concessions. It was only the hard work of independent unions that workers managed to get concessions.
Socialism was made an evil ideology by congress. There is no universal public healthcare program nor price regulation of pharamseuticals. Narcotraficking remains a constant threat to people’s lives.
Biden has done virtually nothing for unhoused people and has instead pushed for bigger police budgets which are a greater threat to exacerbating homelessness than ending it.
Nice little poem which proves my point completely.
Unlike in functioning and prosperous nations like China with their superior socialist economic model and marxist foundations, the USA will continue to decline and terrorize its citizens as well as other nations abroad.
There was no democracy at any point in US history.
Not arguing against that, just pointing out that like it or not, for now that’s the one choice that we have, so concede loss today to fight tomorrow versus surrendering in which tomorrow will never come
You said the same thing in 2020, you’ll be saying the same thing in 2028
You said the same thing in 2016, and if Trump wins this election, you’ll say the same thing in 2028.
I think i’ll fight at the ballot box by not supporting the parties that benefit from the status quo.
Is it? How are you demonstrating that?
no it isnt. same policies, one side is just more polite about it.
yall still dont have healthcare, cmon
Jerrod Kushner had a “peace plan” to kick the Palestinians out of what little they had left in the West Bank and move them to the middle of a barren desert. They dressed it up with “high tech industrial” and other buzz words to make it not look like a naked land grab. Obviously it didn’t get agreed to, but these are the type of people who were empowered under the Trump administration. They would get power again and they are better organized this time to carry out their agenda.
How is that any worse than the Democrats plan to just help Isreal wipe them out entirely?
Okay, let’s rewind to the start of this recent spat of violence, 2023-10-07, when Hamas attacked Israeli citizens surrounding the Gaza Strip. Israel pretty quickly started a bombing campaign that has effectively destroyed northern Gaza. What it hasn’t achieved is its stated goal, eliminating Hamas, nor is it close. My guess is that the Biden administration is putting significant pressure on the Israeli government behind the scenes to scale down their invasion, let aid in, and end illegal settlement expansion. They might be using the weapons as a carrot.
Now think of what the Republicans would be doing in the same situation. Push back? No, they would be cheering from the sidelines like they are now. Illegal settlements? They never much worried about them before.
This wild speculation, based on nothing.
You are comparing fanfiction to different fanfiction here; none of this has any bearing to the facts on the ground.
I’m basing it on what I’ve heard out of Congressional Democrats and Republicans. The administration tends to keep tight lip, but Congress is freer with its thoughts. Take the quote from this article:
That’s literally nothing of substance in that quote.