I heard this a lot. The reality is, if hamas surrender now, they will still be out there looking for hamas, because no one know how many hamas is out there, who is the hamas, or when will hamas strike.
Comparing a resistance movement against a colonizing occupier to the actions that two industrialized nations took against each other during wartime is not really the best way to frame this. If we look at the colonial expansion of the United States against the Native tribes and collectives that were already here, that had established their own system of governing based on mutual collaboration, it gives us a better perspective and context.
You know, i don’t really wanna engage with these “they brought it upon themselves” argument, because it’s really just gonna spiral down into endless back and forth where the origin is only remotely resemble the issue today. To say palestinian deserve what they get because of Hamas is like saying Israeli deserve what they get because of Netanyahu.
You didn’t explicitly say “deserving”, you’re implying. Heavily. There’s no strawman.
Isolating this situation in such a narrow timeline doesn’t make it better either, it’s a very complex issue that need to have a clear separation between modern conflict and past. Which is why I don’t want to engage in discussing, people will either only isolate the whole situation to the current conflict or be very quickly point out the ancient history.
When Lebanon laid down their arms and surrendered with security guarantee from the US that they wold not be harmed, israel committed mass rape and Genocide. This is also where they stole the “pregnant women with the baby ripped out” story from. Israel actually did that themselves:
Janet Lee Stevens, an American journalist, later wrote to her husband, Dr. Franklin Lamb, “I saw dead women in their houses with their skirts up to their waists and their legs spread apart; dozens of young men shot after being lined up against an alley wall; children with their throats slit, a pregnant woman with her stomach chopped open, her eyes still wide open, her blackened face silently screaming in horror; countless babies and toddlers who had been stabbed or ripped apart and who had been thrown into garbage piles.”
As Defense Minister, Ariel Sharon had overall responsibility over the Israeli Defense Forces and allowed Phalangist militias to enter the camps where they terrorized the residents for three days.
During the BBC program, Morris Draper, the U.S. Special Envoy to the Middle East at the time, said that U.S. officials were horrified when told Sharon had allowed Phalange militias into West Beirut and the camps “because it would be a massacre.” He told the BBC that after the killings began he cabled Defense Minister Sharon, telling him, “You must stop the slaughter…. The situation is absolutely appalling. They are killing children. You have the field completely under your control and are therefore responsible for that area.”
Lebanese israel-backed anti-Palestinian Fascists which were pointed to the camp by israel, armed with weapons. The IDF knew very well they would commit that massacare, the IDF which surrounded the camp made sure to defend the Phalangist militias while they commited their massacare.
The Kahan Commission (named after the President of the Israeli Supreme Court) that investigated the massacre in 1983 concluded that “Minister of Defense [Sharon] bears personal responsibility” and should “draw the appropriate personal conclusions arising out of the defects revealed with regard to the manner in which he discharged the duties of his office.” The commission recommended that Prime Minister Menachem Begin remove Sharon from office if he did not resign. Sharon did resign as minister of defense, though he subsequently assumed other cabinet positions. Annexes of the commission report have not yet been made public, and it is not known if they contain additional information specific to Sharon´s involvement.
By all accounts, the perpetrators of this indiscriminate slaughter were members of the Phalange (or Kata´eb, in Arabic) militia, a Lebanese force that was armed by and closely allied to Israel since the outbreak of Lebanon´s civil war in 1975. It must be noted, however, that the killings were carried out in an area under IDF control. An IDF forward command post was situated on the roof of a multi-story building located some 200 meters southwest of the Shatilla camp.
I guess these people can’t read either because if it’s israels responsibility that sure sounds like israel did it.
Maybe you can send the Human Rights Watch a message to correct them. Be sure to link your wikipedia quote.
deleted by creator
Check your votes… No one is buying this… We all see what is happening. But you are a bot so not sure why I’m replying to you.
Israel is a genocide state.
I heard this a lot. The reality is, if hamas surrender now, they will still be out there looking for hamas, because no one know how many hamas is out there, who is the hamas, or when will hamas strike.
deleted by creator
This started in 1917. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
Then there was Nakba in 1948. Literally catastrophe. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nakba-palestine-catastrophe-explained
Hamas was founded in 1988 and revised their charter in 2017. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
Comparing a resistance movement against a colonizing occupier to the actions that two industrialized nations took against each other during wartime is not really the best way to frame this. If we look at the colonial expansion of the United States against the Native tribes and collectives that were already here, that had established their own system of governing based on mutual collaboration, it gives us a better perspective and context.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
You know, i don’t really wanna engage with these “they brought it upon themselves” argument, because it’s really just gonna spiral down into endless back and forth where the origin is only remotely resemble the issue today. To say palestinian deserve what they get because of Hamas is like saying Israeli deserve what they get because of Netanyahu.
deleted by creator
You didn’t explicitly say “deserving”, you’re implying. Heavily. There’s no strawman.
Isolating this situation in such a narrow timeline doesn’t make it better either, it’s a very complex issue that need to have a clear separation between modern conflict and past. Which is why I don’t want to engage in discussing, people will either only isolate the whole situation to the current conflict or be very quickly point out the ancient history.
deleted by creator
When Lebanon laid down their arms and surrendered with security guarantee from the US that they wold not be harmed, israel committed mass rape and Genocide. This is also where they stole the “pregnant women with the baby ripped out” story from. Israel actually did that themselves:
Sabra and Shatila massacre
deleted by creator
https://www.hrw.org/news/2001/06/22/israel-sharon-investigation-urged
Lebanese israel-backed anti-Palestinian Fascists which were pointed to the camp by israel, armed with weapons. The IDF knew very well they would commit that massacare, the IDF which surrounded the camp made sure to defend the Phalangist militias while they commited their massacare.
deleted by creator
I guess these people can’t read either because if it’s israels responsibility that sure sounds like israel did it.
Maybe you can send the Human Rights Watch a message to correct them. Be sure to link your wikipedia quote.
deleted by creator
And I think it would help (at least not harm anyone) if israel (which is a Nazi ethostate) would lay their arms down.
Hey you know what they could do to solve this? A permanent ceasefire! Which Hamas agree to (wow)!
Guess who doesn’t?
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Ah, yes, and Israel will just continue their occupation and genocide of Gaza indefinitely. There’s a reason Hamas exists you moron.
deleted by creator
Why so serious citizen?
deleted by creator